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View Poll Results: I interpret it to be

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48. You may not vote on this poll
  • completely literal

    0 0%
  • mostly literal, with some parables/metaphors

    6 12.50%
  • mostly parables/metaphors with historical fact

    30 62.50%
  • complete nonsense

    11 22.92%
  • other

    9 18.75%
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Thread: The Bible

  1. #41
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rasofy View Post
    To be honest, not much. But I was kinda forced to take catechism classes when I was a teenager, so I had to read a fairly ammount of pages. I agree that there may be some historical value if someone digs deep enough to separate the wheat from the cockle, but since it wasn't meant for informative purposes even this historical info is very suspect.
    Suspect, yes, but not entirely useless. That's my standpoint at least. It's one source among others.

    There's also some elements in these stories that aren't entirely miraculous. Take the Exodus story, for example. It's very possible that there was a slave revolt. For one, the Egyptians definitely owned slaves, and two, the Jews were among some of them. I don't see any reason to doubt that there was a core group - possibly family (Aaron, Moses, and Miriam) that instigated it either. This is plausible. The bible kind of seems credibile for the fact that it paints Moses as insecure, and just a spiritual leader. He stuttered, while his brother was better with people.. and his sister seemed headstrong. Most heroes are painted as shooting lightning bolts out of their asses, but Moses was a stuttering weirdo who said he had visions and such. Entirely plausible.

    It's also plausible that the Egyptians gave chase and the Jews won. The Bible's story is definitely in the far fetched miraculous side of things.. what with the ocean swallowing up Pharoah and all that. But I could see it another way. Perhaps the Jews crossed a spot when there were low tides. By the time the Egyptians caught up, the high tide came, and they got stuck in the mire. And considering what Egypt looks like, I'd say it might have been more swamp like than an entire ocean. And perhaps the Jews either saw their chance to bolt or maybe they picked them off while the Egyptians were stuck. Egypt was heavily dependent on using chariots. This would have really screwed them up.

    There's been a misinterpretation in some translations that say it was the "Red Sea" - but the Hebrew says the spot was called the "Sea of Reeds". This changes the story significantly to something that sounds more like mine, rather than the Charleton Heston version.

  2. #42
    royal member Rasofy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    95% of the population view the bible as sacred and dont question it? Where are you living? Strike that when are you living?
    There is a huge number of passive believers. The average Joe doesn't go to church or read the bible, but still considers Jesus the cool guy that saved humanity. I live in Brazil and the proportion of passive believers here is pretty sick. More developed countries tend to have better rates though.
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    A man creates. A parasite says, 'What will the neighbors think?'
    A man invents. A parasite says, 'Watch out, or you might tread on the toes of God... '


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  3. #43
    Post Human Post Qlip's Avatar
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    @KDude

    I just finished an intensely long audio course in Egyptology. Most of the Exodus stuff is very spot on as far as how Egypt was described and the types of things the Israelites did there. They even may have identified archaeological evidence of peoples who may have been them. Of course, as far as Egyptian record keeping goes, a small minority of people exiting the country isn't as near as sensational or important as it was to the peoples who did it. It was assumed by the lecturer that the numbers were inflated.

  4. #44
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Antimony View Post
    It is very amusing that people picked it.
    Hmm are you sure you aren't an Fi dom?
    Yeah, I am.

    To be honest I like people who have developed Feeling functions, although not necessarily those who are atypical users or typified by that function, unless similarly they can use it rather than be controlled by it, if you know what I mean.

    Its my nature to rely heavily on thinking, and its what I'm comfortable with but like I say I like positive feelers and I like how they write and are more creative or imaginative than others or my type, they are truly fantastic in that respect, but its not me and I try not to be jealous. There was a thread somewhere at one stage, could have been in the random thought thread, where I posted about how I thought my type was actually limiting in a spirituality sense, T functionals appear to be philosophers, not spiritualists, no matter how devout they may be.

  5. #45
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    @op: I'm gonna assume that by "literal" you simply mean "historically completely true" and basically "means what it seems to mean, when someone translates it into my language."

    Because there is no real "literal" version of any document, especially a translated one.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  6. #46
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rasofy View Post
    There is a huge number of passive believers. The average Joe doesn't go to church or read the bible, but still considers Jesus the cool guy that saved humanity. I live in Brazil and the proportion of passive believers here is pretty sick. More developed countries tend to have better rates though.
    Sick? What does that mean? Bad? I dont think its a bad thing you're describing, in fact I think its awesome.

  7. #47
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Antimony View Post

    Hmm are you sure you aren't an Fi dom?
    Is there something Fi about a metaphor concerning transmuting lead into gold or vice versa?
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  8. #48
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qlip View Post
    @KDude

    I just finished an intensely long audio course in Egyptology. Most of the Exodus stuff is very spot on as far as how Egypt was described and the types of things the Israelites did there. They even may have identified archaeological evidence of peoples who may have been them. Of course, as far as Egyptian record keeping goes, a small minority of people exiting the country isn't as near as sensational or important as it was to the peoples who did it. It was assumed by the lecturer that the numbers were inflated.
    I know a hardcore atheist who argues that none of exodus could be true because the impact which a massive slave desertion would have had on the Egyptian socio-economic order never registered with any independent/alternative or Egyptian mytho-historical source.

    Mind you I told him that no Egyptian source would be liable to want to brag about that sort of shit, in all likelihood it would have been something which the thought police of their day would have sought to revise out of their histories and memory. That said I also dont believe that socio-economic orders would register hits like that in the same way, for instance, a modern one would a general strike, its the application of modern mindsets to ancient conditions again.

  9. #49
    You're fired. Lol. Antimony's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mal12345 View Post
    Is there something Fi about a metaphor concerning transmuting lead into gold or vice versa?
    No. That wasn't what I was referring to.
    Excuse me, but does this smell like chloroform to you?

    Always reserve the right to become smarter at a future point in time, for only a fool limits themselves to all they knew in the past. -Alex

  10. #50
    Post Human Post Qlip's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    I know a hardcore atheist who argues that none of exodus could be true because the impact which a massive slave desertion would have had on the Egyptian socio-economic order never registered with any independent/alternative or Egyptian mytho-historical source.

    Mind you I told him that no Egyptian source would be liable to want to brag about that sort of shit, in all likelihood it would have been something which the thought police of their day would have sought to revise out of their histories and memory. That said I also dont believe that socio-economic orders would register hits like that in the same way, for instance, a modern one would a general strike, its the application of modern mindsets to ancient conditions again.
    On one count you scored. The Egyptians were absolutely notorious for omitting anything and everything that looked bad, going as far as methodically chiseling over any evidence of disgraced pharaohs. But the lecturer seemed to think the number was very silly compared to the world population at the time.

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