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The Varieties of Truth

Mole

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The Varieties of Religious Experience

As far as the title of this thread, "varieties of truth", don't exist.

Who knows? Perhaps the varieties of truth don't exist but, "The Varieties of Religious Experience", by William James is in your library.

"The Varieties of Religious Experience", is a beautifully written study in human nature. And might appeal to you.
 

Vasilisa

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Dear moderators,

if I added a clause to the opening post forbidding idiotic statements, could I then report certain evidence and have it removed from my thread?

It might become something everyone who starts a thread feels entitled to, and then we would be enforcing everyone's demand to shape discussions as they see fit. Try starting a discussion group. You can be the admin and you can make it invitation only, to help you get the specific kind of exchange you are looking for.
 

reason

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Truth and falsity are properties of propositions. A proposition is true if it corresponds to the facts, and otherwise it is false.

The statements 'Jupiter is larger than the Earth' and 'Earth is smaller than Jupiter' are different, but both exemplify the same proposition. Likewise, my belief that Jupiter is larger than the Earth is not the same thing as your belief that Jupiter is larger than the Earth, but both are about the same proposition. Propositions are abstract things. You cannot find propositions in the physical world, neither in books nor in peoples' brains, but only structures that exemplify them.

All truths are universal and objective. A proposition which is "true" for some people but "false" for others is merely false. A true proposition tolerates no exceptions, by definition. A counterexample to any proposition entails its falsity, however small the deviation from the facts. What is true is true for everyone, or else it was never true in the first place. The inherent universality and objectivity of truth is why it is valued so highly and can serve as a common goal for rational discussion.

True propositions exist independent of our beliefs about which propositions are true. We may be right or we may be wrong. Whether a proposition is true and whether we know it to be true are separate issues; the absence of certainty or knowledge does not entail the absence of truth.

A proposition may be verisimilar or truthlike. One proposition may have a higher degree of verisimilitude than another. For example, both propositions exemplified by the statements 'Jupiter is two times larger than the Earth' and 'Jupiter is ten times larger than the Earth' are false, but the latter has a higher degree of verisimilitude, i.e. it is closer to the truth. There is no precise way to quantify verisimilitude. Propositions entail other propositions, and every proposition has infinitely many logical consequences. Therefore, to entail any false proposition is to entail infinitely many.

The idea of "theories of truth" is nonsense. The question 'which theory of truth is true?' is rather facile. We can, of course, define the word 'truth' as something other than correspondence to the facts, but then we have just discreetly changed the subject. Usefulness and coherency are relevant to truth, but they are weaker standards and less precise ends. If pragmatists, coherentists, or whoever want the word 'truth', then they can have it. Words are not important, because 'troof' and 'thalzity' are fine substitutes.
 

LucidLegend1984

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My apologies if my philosophy partially if at all applies but in my own experience there are only two truths, "what actually happened" and "what someone retells what happened."
 

Nicodemus

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[Textbook answer]

The idea of "theories of truth" is nonsense. The question 'which theory of truth is true?' is rather facile. We can, of course, define the word 'truth' as something other than correspondence to the facts, but then we have just discreetly changed the subject. Usefulness and coherency are relevant to truth, but they are weaker standards and less precise ends. If pragmatists, coherentists, or whoever want the word 'truth', then they can have it. Words are not important, because 'troof' and 'thalzity' are fine substitutes.
Are you a scientific realist?
 

reason

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What kind of answer would you like? An answer that corresponds to the facts? An answer that is useful for some purpose or other? An answer that is coherent? Maybe an answer that the people of Typology Central can reach a consensus on? Perhaps you're a paraconsistent logician, in which case my answer is both yes and no. Oh what fun!
 

Nicodemus

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What kind of answer would you like? An answer that corresponds to the facts? An answer that is useful for some purpose or other? An answer that is coherent? Maybe an answer that the people of Typology Central can reach a consensus on? Perhaps you're a paraconsistent logician, in which case my answer is both yes and no. Oh what fun!
An answer that you consider to be true.
 

reason

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An answer that you consider to be true.
But what do you mean by 'answer' and 'consider'? Maybe by 'answer' you mean express through interpretive dance and by 'consider' you mean toss a coin. Besides, who am I? I mean, really, what does 'I' even mean? Maybe I am actually you. So maybe you can just do the random interpretive dance in the mirror and leave me out of it, eh?

Anyway, where 'true' is interpreted to mean correspondence to the facts, my answer is no: I'm not a scientific realist. If 'true' means something else, then my answer is only when the jelly is facing eastward on the second Sunday of May.
 

Nicodemus

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But what do you mean by 'answer' and 'consider'? Maybe by 'answer' you mean express through interpretive dance and by 'consider' you mean toss a coin. Besides, who am I? I mean, really, what does 'I' even mean? Maybe I am actually you. So maybe you can just do the random interpretive dance in the mirror and leave me out of it, eh?
Your annoyance is duly noted.

Anyway, where 'true' is interpreted to mean correspondence to the facts, my answer is no: I'm not a scientific realist. If 'true' means something else, then my answer is only when the jelly is facing eastward on the second Sunday of May.
My whole problem with the classic conception of truth is that what we call facts are merely fractions of the best explanation(s) of the world we have at a given time. Yet we call them facts and consider propositions that 'accurately' describe them true. Everybody likes the old idea. I suppose it is evolutionarily useful for us to believe that what we think is true is actually true. But we know that what is considered true later often turns out false. So why not be honest and concede that even the surest assertion of truth is but correspondence with the world as we understand it?
 

reason

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My whole problem with the classic conception of truth is that what we call facts are merely fractions of the best explanation(s) of the world we have at a given time. Yet we call them facts and consider propositions that 'accurately' describe them true. Everybody likes the old idea. I suppose it is evolutionarily useful for us to believe that what we think is true is actually true. But we know that what is considered true later often turns out false. So why not be honest and concede that even the surest assertion of truth is but correspondence with the world as we understand it?
We may be mistaken about the facts; we may think something true that is not actually true. This is an issue of epistemology; this is not an issue with truth itself. Besides, people can only be mistaken about the facts if there is some truth about which they are mistaken. Like I said before, in my 'textbook answer':

True propositions exist independent of our beliefs about which propositions are true. We may be right or we may be wrong. Whether a proposition is true and whether we know it to be true are separate issues; the absence of certainty or knowledge does not entail the absence of truth.​

The statement 'Jupiter is larger than the Earth' is true if and only if Jupiter is actually larger than the Earth. When we think a proposition is true, then we think it describes the facts, because that's just what it means for it to be true. Might we be mistaken? Of course, and we spend a great deal of time and resources testing for such errors.
 

Nicodemus

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The point of contention seems to be that we disagree about the importance of words. I think if we use the word 'apple' to describe camels, then it actually means 'camel', while you think that, however useless the word 'apple' becomes when we are misapplying it most of the time, we should still interpret it as describing apples - whatever they may be.
 

reason

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The point of contention seems to be that we disagree about the importance of words. I think if we use the word 'apple' to describe camels, then it actually means 'camel', while you think that, however useless the word 'apple' becomes when we are misapplying it most of the time, we should still interpret it as describing apples - whatever they may be.
Truth is a regulative ideal. We may be wrong most of the time, but wrong about what? About what is true. How do we discover that we are wrong? We search for contradictions. Falsity is retransmitted from conclusion to premises in a successful refutation. Criticism itself depends on appeal to necessary truths, i.e. propositions which must be true given what it means for a proposition to be true.

The notion of truth is far from useless because we are wrong most of the time. It would, rather, be useless if we were right all of the time, because then we'd have no use for the distinction. Ideals are useful even if they are never realised, because they provide a point to orientate our efforts. You're doing it right now! Do you think it's true that our point of contention is about the importance of words? I don't: I don't think that corresponds to the facts. But maybe it's merely a useful proposition to you; maybe it doesn't matter if its actually "true". I doubt that; you care about correspondence to the facts just as I do, even if, or especially because, you're wrong most of the time.
 

Nicodemus

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Truth is a regulative ideal. We may be wrong most of the time, but wrong about what? About what is true. How do we discover that we are wrong? We search for contradictions. Falsity is retransmitted from conclusion to premises in a successful refutation. Criticism itself depends on appeal to necessary truths, i.e. propositions which must be true given what it means for a proposition to be true.

The notion of truth is far from useless because we are wrong most of the time. It would, rather, be useless if we were right all of the time, because then we'd have no use for the distinction. Ideals are useful even if they are never realised, because they provide a point to orientate our efforts. You're doing it right now! Do you think it's true that our point of contention is about the importance of words? I don't: I don't think that corresponds to the facts. But maybe it's merely a useful proposition to you; maybe it doesn't matter if its actually "true". I doubt that; you care about correspondence to the facts just as I do, even if, or especially because, you're wrong most of the time.
By unnecessarily lecturing me on the notion of truth rather than talking about 'truth', you tacitly proved my assumption or, let us say, justified my belief in it.
 

reason

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By unnecessarily lecturing me on the notion of truth rather than talking about 'truth', you tacitly proved my assumption or, let us say, justified my belief in it.
'Truth' is a five letter word beginning with 'T' and ending with 'h'. Do you want to talk about that? I doubt it.
 
G

Ginkgo

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Welcome!

The purpose of this thread is to survey the various conceptions of truth that are ingrained in your minds. In order to participate and win a rabbit, please go by the following steps:

  1. Look into yourself.
  2. Feel, think about, grasp at the idea of truth that you find in there.
  3. Ponder the best way to put it into words.
  4. Put it into words.
  5. Submit it.
It is neither necessary nor requested that you think about how truth should be, could be, or is defined by others. It is all about you.

I hope your answer will in itself answer the following question; if it does not, however, please answer: According to your conception of truth, what is required for statement 'x'* to be true?

* 'x' could be anything, for instance, 'Yeshua of Nazareth died on the cross'.

Truth is conceptual understanding of reality. When the intellect and when reality correspond, truth is formed. We are all experiencing our own truths right now.
 
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