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  1. #51
    Senior Member Tiltyred's Avatar
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    The problem there is, in this scheme of things, being born does not equal "existing." He is thought to have existed before he was incarnated.

  2. #52
    Senior Member Spurgeon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tiltyred View Post
    The problem there is, in this scheme of things, being born does not equal "existing." He is thought to have existed before he was incarnated.
    Exactly.

    And I would add that Jesus was resurrected from the dead--as in, he is still alive.

    The point is--He always was, and always will be, the Son of God--Eternal and unchanging.

    There is no contradiction here, except in your mind.

  3. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tiltyred View Post
    The problem there is, in this scheme of things, being born does not equal "existing." He is thought to have existed before he was incarnated.
    Where did he "exist" before?

    Quote Originally Posted by Spurgeon View Post
    And I would add that Jesus was resurrected from the dead--as in, he is still alive.
    What does this matter if his existence is not contingent upon his living?

    And Jesus is still alive now?

    After he was resurrected, he actually became a living human being again?

    And he's stayed a living, breathing human ever since? Even after he left the Earth?

    Why wouldn't he have just gone back to existing, not actually living?

    Quote Originally Posted by Spurgeon View Post
    The point is--He always was, and always will be, the Son of God--Eternal and unchanging.
    Who gave birth to him the first time? Before he was born? When he just existed?

    I mean, he couldn't have come into existence at the same time as God, if he is God's child, no?

    At what point in time, how long after God came into existence, did God make baby Jesus?

    (And by "baby Jesus", I'm not referring to the actual, in the flesh, living Jesus, just the Jesus that was born into existence, not life.)

  4. #54
    Senior Member Tiltyred's Avatar
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    Erg, I should have known better than to walk into that can of worms.

    Zarathustra, the idea is that god is a triune god. The father, the son, the HOLY GHOST. All one. The son and the holy ghost always existed. They just didn't manifest.

    But I don't want to get bogged down in proving Christianity because it really can't be proven. It's a codification of certain ideas that have always been with us.

    and ps the only version I know is Protestant
    As far as who gave birth to Jesus, it just occurred to me I suppose a Catholic christian might say Mary did. She's not part of the trinity. She's just the queen of heaven. :-)

    God exists in infinity. It's not linear and we can't measure it. Now and then is all happening at once.

  5. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tiltyred View Post
    It's a codification of certain ideas that have always been with us.
    Always?

    Or only for the last 2000 years or so?

    Or ~1700 or so, really, if you consider when it was all finally written, agreed upon, and codified.

  6. #56
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    And Tilty, I'm just playing...



    I just find it amazing to see adult's actually still believing in and repeating this stuff.

    I went through this all when I was a kid, and, well, it just seems so absurd to me anymore these days.

    And I'm not even like Nico; I'm no atheist.

    Theology is just so... dubitable.

  7. #57
    Senior Member Tiltyred's Avatar
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    There have been many triune gods and goddesses, and many gods that sent sons to earth. Way before Jesus.
    3 is a significant number, the number of creation. We like things in 3s.

    I'm just playing, too. It's interesting to talk about ideas and religion and how things came to be.

    We're highjacking Nicodemus' thread, though. :-)

    People find meaning and understand things as they can, as they're fashioned to. The more people with different truths talk together, the greater chance we can understand. (I hope)

    Ok: Indubitable truth: green M&Ms make you horny

  8. #58
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    Oh, I didn't realize you were gettin all Joseph Campbell up in here.

    Yes, in that case, I completely agree with you.


  9. #59
    Senior Member Tiltyred's Avatar
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    I started to hug you but maybe you don't like that. Er, um ... high five!

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    I accept hugs.

    ETA: but yikes! what're you doing adding all that stuff to your posts?!? I'ma have to start quoting you next time!


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