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  1. #1
    Luctor et emergo Ezra's Avatar
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    Default Social Darwinism

    Why do more people not abide by this view? Is it because of its Nazi associations, and they're ashamed? Or is it because the human race is inherently compassionate and cares about those who cannot help themselves? Why is it that we help the disabled? Were they 'meant' to die out? Should we leave them to do so? And should we treat disabled members of our family differently to other disabled people?

  2. #2
    Courage is immortality Valiant's Avatar
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    OK, here's a little input. People are kind because of:
    1. Feelings of guilt. "Why should X suffer while I have plenty?"
    2. Somebody in a shitty situation can really make your day crappy. Solution is to fix the crappy situation with either family/friends helping or a social security net that catches them when they fall.
    3. People feel good about themselves when they help somebody out.

    I mean... Who the hell wouldn't help a disabled person get up a steep ramp, over a particularly bad street or an old lady who has fallen and hurt herself?

    Mightier than the tread of marching armies is the power of an idea whose time has come

  3. #3
    More human than human MetalWounds's Avatar
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    Perhaps it's preprogrammed feature that stops our race from advancing too quickly. Sort of a built in check to evolution.
    I'm doing science and I'm still alive

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    Courage is immortality Valiant's Avatar
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    That's actually a pretty good idea, MW If we would let weak people die and do selective breeding with only the smartest and most physically good people, it would probably evolve way too quick.

    Mightier than the tread of marching armies is the power of an idea whose time has come

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    More human than human MetalWounds's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by YourLocalJesus View Post
    That's actually a pretty good idea, MW If we would let weak people die and do selective breeding with only the smartest and most physically good people, it would probably evolve way too quick.
    Some would argue that is how we became the superior race that we are today. But it's insensitive, so it must be wrong.
    I'm doing science and I'm still alive

  6. #6
    Courage is immortality Valiant's Avatar
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    Outcome: great
    Method: inhumane

    Mightier than the tread of marching armies is the power of an idea whose time has come

  7. #7
    Senior Member Apollonian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezra View Post
    Why do more people not abide by this view? Is it because of its Nazi associations, and they're ashamed? Or is it because the human race is inherently compassionate and cares about those who cannot help themselves? Why is it that we help the disabled? Were they 'meant' to die out? Should we leave them to do so? And should we treat disabled members of our family differently to other disabled people?
    Would you please define what exactly you mean by social darwinism? For my part, I think that our society has moved sufficiently beyond the Nazi preoccupation (note: no double entendre intended ;-).

    The first question I would ask is this: Where does "social darwinism" fall on the following spectrum...

    On one side, we could spend all of our resources ensuring that the weakest of us does not have any disadvantage over the strongest. While this would be compassionate, it would also be stagnant and ultimately self-defeating.

    On the other side, we could leave the wounded and disabled to die by refusing them care, and then consume their resources to aid the stronger, healthier members of society. However, as beneficial as this would be to advancing the health and well-being of those who are healthy and strong...it seems to me that this is unsustainable given that everyone is inevitably weak in some way at some point in their lives and require outside assistance.

    ...

    So, why do people not subscribe to "social darwinism"? Well, it is probably not the philosophy that is the problem but rather than "social darwinism" is an outdating term. I think people prefer to look at the various consequences of "natural selection" individually rather than en-masse as when considering an Authoritarian Dictatorship.

    Of course, ultimately, the Nazi's were not selected to propagate the human race and have been mostly eliminated...so what does that say about their Aryan social darwinism?

    My conclusion is that applying Darwin's theory to social systems (including "natural selection", "mutation", "crossover", etc) is difficult at best because there is no really closed system to observe. Is there an analog to Galapagos when it comes to Social Darwinism? Furthermore, I would emphasize that while such a theory might describe human systems in certain respects, it can never quite describe them definitively enough to create a practical moral framework (at least not beyond individual opinions).

  8. #8
    Senior Member INTJMom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezra View Post
    Why do more people not abide by this view? Is it because of its Nazi associations, and they're ashamed? Or is it because the human race is inherently compassionate and cares about those who cannot help themselves? Why is it that we help the disabled? Were they 'meant' to die out? Should we leave them to do so? And should we treat disabled members of our family differently to other disabled people?
    I dislike social Darwinism. Besides, in order to believe in it, you sort of have to deny the existence of all the synergistic relationships in the world. Survival of the fittest thinking is what makes the world a horrible place in which to live. I would rather live in a world where people care about each other, look after their fellow man, and help each other.

    What I hear is that handicapped people teach us non-handicapped people how to love unconditionally and be less selfish.

  9. #9
    Senior Member Veneti's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezra View Post
    Why do more people not abide by this view? Is it because of its Nazi associations, and they're ashamed? Or is it because the human race is inherently compassionate and cares about those who cannot help themselves? Why is it that we help the disabled? Were they 'meant' to die out? Should we leave them to do so? And should we treat disabled members of our family differently to other disabled people?
    With disabled people these are generally part of the extended group and relevant to it (Your bother etc). Hence, we realise that we could easily be them.

    Social darwinism would occur more readily, however because the masses get one vote then the masses are protected. Look at the proliferation of those that do not provide as much as they take.

    Social darwinism is occurring all the time... just take the preference for looks as one example... just depends how explicitly obvious it is made.

    If social darwinism didn't occur we'd still be butt ugly apes dragging our knuckles around... well admittedly there are still a few around in society.

  10. #10
    Luctor et emergo Ezra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Apollonian View Post
    Would you please define what exactly you mean by social darwinism?
    Not helping those who can't help themselves; letting them die out, because they were always meant to die out.

    Of course, ultimately, the Nazi's were not selected to propagate the human race and have been mostly eliminated...so what does that say about their Aryan social darwinism?
    It says that anti-Nazis could have interfered with the natural course of life and eliminated those who knew what they were doing.

    Quote Originally Posted by INTJMom View Post
    I dislike social Darwinism. Besides, in order to believe in it, you sort of have to deny the existence of all the synergistic relationships in the world.
    What does this mean; "synergistic relationships"?

    Survival of the fittest thinking is what makes the world a horrible place in which to live.
    That doesn't entail the introduction of moral claims about how we should live. It doesn't contradict the idea of social Darwinism's being correct.

    Quote Originally Posted by Veneti View Post
    With disabled people these are generally part of the extended group and relevant to it (Your bother etc). Hence, we realise that we could easily be them.
    This, again, doesn't contradict social Darwinism. The only thing it shows is that man is completely and utterly self-preservationist ("God help me if I ended up like him. Hence, I must help him"). It's completely illogical.

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