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Does Hell exist?

Does Hell exist?

  • Yes

    Votes: 16 27.1%
  • No

    Votes: 43 72.9%

  • Total voters
    59

Nicodemus

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So what you don't like is that Christianity is open to interpretation and isn't set in stone? (could be reading this wrong)
No. We were musing about the ridiculousness of the christian belief, noting that it is difficult to say with certainty exactly how ridiculous it is, because there are so many interpretations of what is written in the scriptures and, thus, what should be considered the christian belief.
 
A

Anew Leaf

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No. We were musing about the ridiculousness of the christian belief, noting that it is difficult to say with certainty exactly how ridiculous it is, because there are so many interpretations of what is written in the scriptures and, thus, what should be considered the christian belief.

You can say this about every belief system. Is your bone to pick with Christianity alone or all forms of religion?
 

Nicodemus

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You can say this about every belief system. Is your bone to pick with Christianity alone or all forms of religion?
Mostly Christianity - because I live in the Western world, I suppose. I disagree with the first sentence, of course.
 

Beorn

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What I personally found astounding is that God, an all powerful and all knowing being, gets offended. Getting offended has always seemed like such a base human reaction to me. Even when you think of enlightened people, like Gandhi, MLK, Mandela, etc, they weren't the kind to "get offended and dish out the appropriate punishment". And these are mere mortals, not divine beings, not to mention the ultimate divinity.

The difference is that: 1) God is perfect and entitled to not being mistreated. Do not confuse this with needing to be treated with respect and honor. God doesn't need anything. 2) God doesn't "dish out the appropriate punishment" because he universally treats people better than they deserve.
 

Beorn

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lol. So you're a Calvinist? Well, I always commend people who are willing to take their beliefs to the logical conclusion.

Yeah, but people who are logically consistent in their beliefs also tend to be real assholes ( sadly this is often true of calvinists).
 

Magic Poriferan

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I can't be completely sure of anything, really. But to the maximum amount I can be sure of something, I'm sure there's no hell. It makes no sense. It makes no rational or empirical sense that it would exist.
 

Sanctus Iacobus

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Sins are often weighed by who they are committed against. Regardless of what humans are involved all sins offend God. God is so perfect, righteous, and holy any offense against him is astronomically evil.

What is astounding is not that God is wrathful and that there is a hell, but that God is loving and there is a heaven. People deserve wrath and Hell. They do not deserve love and heaven, yet many receive it.

Right on.
 

Spurgeon

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Sins are often weighed by who they are committed against. Regardless of what humans are involved all sins offend God. God is so perfect, righteous, and holy any offense against him is astronomically evil.

What is astounding is not that God is wrathful and that there is a hell, but that God is loving and there is a heaven. People deserve wrath and Hell. They do not deserve love and heaven, yet many receive it.



The difference is that: 1) God is perfect and entitled to not being mistreated. Do not confuse this with needing to be treated with respect and honor. God doesn't need anything. 2) God doesn't "dish out the appropriate punishment" because he universally treats people better than they deserve.

So true.
 

Spurgeon

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Lol.

I would hope spurgeon would think so.

;)

From the word of God I gather that damnation is all of man, from top to bottom, and salvation is all of grace, from first to last. He that perishes chooses to perish; but he that is saved is saved because God has chosen to save him. Though some cannot make these statements agree, they are nevertheless equally true.
 

Spurgeon

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I can't be completely sure of anything, really. But to the maximum amount I can be sure of something, I'm sure there's no hell. It makes no sense. It makes no rational or empirical sense that it would exist.

It may be all very well to prove that such and such a revelation of God is consistent with reason, consistent with analogy, consistent with a thousand things; but the spirit which needs such argument is a spirit of rebellion against God.
If there be a revelation, every part of it is of authority, and must be believed. Human thought is not the arbiter of truth, but the infallible Word is the end of all strife. It is not ours to say what the truth must be, or what we think it should be, or what we would like it to be, but reverently to sit down with open ear and willing heart to receive what God has spoken.
 

Lark

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I used to at one point, I was raised very religious. In fact when I was a kid my biggest fears were demon possession and alien abduction. I was taught that aliens were actually demons in disguise. Then I went through a point in life trying to summon demons then I went through an atheistic phase.

Now, hmm, I don't believe so, not strictly. But I believe in a metaphoric existence of demons, which can be really real if it fits into your world view. Real things, real problems, real malevolent forces materialize into forms that you expect.



I believe hell is a state of existence present when you are separated from God. So yes I believe in hell. I'm pretty sure, though that I don't believe in God the same way that you do and I'm sure I don't believe in its manifestation in the same way as you.

So, my answers are, Yes and No. I'm a professional sword edge walker.

What is your conception of God? What do you mean by the metaphoric sense of Demons?

I was brought up in an average RC household, wouldnt consider it particularly religious, although I have to say that I had a common experience of fearing demonic possession, also a fear of vampires but it was objectively the same thing, and also the devil in person, I remember stories of a very medieval kind in which the devil would appear in person and trick people, try to get them to sell their soul, that kind of thing having some currency in the story books we had growing up.

I do believe that this life, as it is, can provide foretastes of both heaven or hell. I also believe that this life could be heaven or hell for everyone, that is I believe in the prophetic messianism of the old testament when they spoke heaven or paradise as "the world to come" and meant it in the sense of historical time or an eventuality when God or his spirit would return to the earth. In the RCC and Christian tradition that I'm part of this old testament sense is not invalidated by the new testaments teaching that everlasting life and heaven and hell are transcendent states, or the Celts and earlier belief systems described it, the otherworld, the book of revelation combines these seperate beliefs.

The idea of there being an embodiment of evil which is seperate from and not the invention of humanity, or some sort of metaphorical or literary tool, is not difficult for me to believe, I think there's other less plausible beliefs. Although there are very good treatments of this in literature, usually involving devils or devilry being or becoming obsolete because they are overtaken by human evil. Its easy to believe that there's plenty of evil besides devils or demons but I still think they are an archetypical source.
 

Edgar

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The difference is that: 1) God is perfect and entitled to not being mistreated. Do not confuse this with needing to be treated with respect and honor. God doesn't need anything. 2) God doesn't "dish out the appropriate punishment" because he universally treats people better than they deserve.

Hell is a creation specifically designed to dish out punishment, is it not?
 

Beorn

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Hell is a creation specifically designed to dish out punishment, is it not?

Yes, but my point is if a person lived one day, saw a beautiful sunset, and they then died and went to hell they would be treated better than they deserved. God not only deals out punishment he also deals out mercy and grace being responsible for every good thing that comes into a person's life.
 

Lark

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Hell isnt evidence of a punitive God, anymore than the availability of alcohol for sale is to blame for addicts being perpetually drunk, seriously I cant handle the extent to which people dont have a grip on natural consequences or dont want to get a grip on consequences.
 

Giggly

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Please vote in the poll.
 

Edgar

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God doesn't "dish out the appropriate punishment" because he universally treats people better than they deserve.

Yes, but my point is if a person lived one day, saw a beautiful sunset, and they then died and went to hell they would be treated better than they deserved. God not only deals out punishment he also deals out mercy and grace being responsible for every good thing that comes into a person's life.

I'm sorry, but your statements are non sensical. Hell isn't really a punishment because we deserve worse than hell? Just because one deserves a worse punishment than hell doesn't mean hell isn't a punishment, since the purpose of hell is specifically designed to inflict pain.

Also, what do you base your opinion on what people deserve and don't deserve?
 

Qlip

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What is your conception of God? What do you mean by the metaphoric sense of Demons?

Okay.. it's important to know that my belief and my conception of God came about as I was trying to answer very personal questions. As a result, my understandings are also very personal, and maybe not terribly helpful to others.

I think essentially, I forget the word, that everything is God.. there's nothing separate from anything fundamentally. Also, though, God is more than everything we have 'access' to as people. So, Evil is equally a part of God as Good is. God is not the God of everything good, God is the God of existence which encompasses matter and other rarer forms of manifestation, like ideas, and ideals. So.. we are limited to perception of differentiations in our normal state, and God's existence extends beyond that. All that 'who created God?' jazz doesn't register with me at all, because what's important is that God 'meta-created' existance and nonexistance. This is easy to say, but there is nothing to logically discuss about it, it's a waste of time.

So what is Evil, and what is a demon? Well, Evil is actually easily explainable when you understand that we are God also. Evil is really an effect of disharmony having to do with our decisions, Good is harmony, neither of which is not God. A demon is just Evil personified. This probably can happen a lot of ways, we tend to personify things in order to interact with them. I don't rule out the idea of external manifestations of Evil, but to me.. some sort of supernatural occurance is not any different than just somebody being a bad person. And neither is some sort of supernatural good force any different than somebody being a good person.
 
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