Does Hell exist?

[Qlip]

It just seems strange to me that, if there's a direct correlation between your actions and beliefs and consequences in the afterlife, they would operate on some system more harsh than reaping what you sow, so to say.

Well, I don't disagree with you, but the Christian premise is not yours. I don't believe in the Christian premise, so I'm playing a bit of a Devil's Advocate here (har har). Most Christians do not believe that your actions and beliefs (or works) are correlated with your consequences in the afterlife. They do believe that people who accept Jesus will on the whole be better people, and that doing good things shows your belief in God. So really, good deads does not equal heaven.

There is at least on branch of Christianty (Calvinists) that basically says that you can never choose to be a good person and be saved on your own, you can't even choose to accept Jesus, you are so sinful. The only ones to be saved are the ones who were chosen by God specifically.

 

[Ginkgo]

 

[Anew Leaf]

Do you believe in the presence of demons, demonic things, and/or the devil?

Do you believe that hell (aka the lake of fire) exists?

I go to a church that has an awesome ENTP pastor who did a very interesting sermon on hell one day, and for the first time it was something that made sense to me and I could get behind it.

In a nutshell, hell is being separated from God. He cited a passage in the bible talking about the judgement being a process that refines us like the process used to refine gold. (basically heat is applied to gold to burn off impurities). So his take on this is that we will all have the bad parts about us burned off one time, and whatever good bits are left, that gets saved. Whatever bad parts we have are destroyed. So people who perhaps are damned eternally (hitler has some of the best odds on that) will not be tortured for eternity, instead they will just be destroyed and that's the end of it. A permenant and eternal separation from God.

I am paraphrasing from memory here but that is the gist of what I remembered. What I like about it is that while I am Christian, I don't believe the rest if the world is going to hell if they aren't Christian.

 

[Nicodemus]

Where is the poll?

 

[ReflecTcelfeR]

Do you believe in the presence of demons, demonic things, and/or the devil?

Do you believe that hell (aka the lake of fire) exists?

I don't believe it matters much. I think it is a distraction from the real point of religion.

 

[Sniffles]

This discussion reminds me of one MADTV quip

Hostage taker: I'll see you in Hell!
Woody Allen: Oh I don't believe in Hell, how about Los Angelos?

 

[gromit]

I remember a teacher who said heaven and hell are what we create right here in this life in how we act and treat each other. I thought that was interesting.

 

[JAVO]

Do you believe in the presence of demons, demonic things, and/or the devil?

Do you believe that hell (aka the lake of fire) exists?

I think that all of these likely exist, but that the question of their existence is esoteric and irrelevant. The important issue is whether God and heaven exists, and what our course of action should be if true or likely.

 

[Ginkgo]

Where is the poll?

Probably in Hell.

 

[Giggly]

Bat signal >> requesting to pick [MENTION=4212]Peguy[/MENTION] 's brain.

I don't believe it matters much. I think it is a distraction from the real point of religion.

I think that all of these likely exist, but that the question of their existence is esoteric and irrelevant. The important issue is whether God and heaven exists, and what our course of action should be if true or likely.

I'm not suggesting that hell should be focused on but I'm quite curious as to why it's considered irrelevant or non-existent in some cases. What is it about hell that makes people not want to even acknowledge or discuss it's existence?

 

[Sniffles]

Bat signal >> requesting to pick [MENTION=4212]Peguy[/MENTION] 's brain.

I'm not suggesting that hell should be focused on but I'm quite curious as to why it's considered irrelevant or non-existent in some cases. What is it about hell that makes people not want to even acknowledge or discuss it's existence?

I can't speak for JAVO or ReflecTcelfeR, but there are some reasons why people would consider it irrelevant. 1) They don't really want it to be true that such a place could exist, where you're punished(possibly for eternity). And/or 2) Anything beyond mere empirical study is just dismissed as irrelevant or fantasy. This is the only life you get, so live it and forget about eternity - or a sense of fatalism of "well I'm going to Hell anyways, might as well enjoy things while I can."

 

[King sns]

I just wrote a post and in the wrong click of a button deleted it. This is my chance to make the short non-rambling version.

I don't believe in hell or any religious teaching in the literal sense. Pitchforks, demons, fire. No- just metaphors for a state of the soul, perhaps. Though I'm not sure if heaven and hell exist,I believe that perhaps they have to exist together as a whole. Love/hate- "Heaven" and "Hell" "Satan"and "God" "Good" and "Evil"- they wouldn't be the same thing without each other. Perhaps for reasons that we don't understand.

(highfive to self, cut the post down significantly.)

 

[Beorn]

It just seems strange to me that, if there's a direct correlation between your actions and beliefs and consequences in the afterlife, they would operate on some system more harsh than reaping what you sow, so to say.

Sins are often weighed by who they are committed against. Regardless of what humans are involved all sins offend God. God is so perfect, righteous, and holy any offense against him is astronomically evil.

What is astounding is not that God is wrathful and that there is a hell, but that God is loving and there is a heaven. People deserve wrath and Hell. They do not deserve love and heaven, yet many receive it.

Do you believe in the presence of demons, demonic things, and/or the devil?

Do you believe that hell (aka the lake of fire) exists?

Yes. It seems to me to be a necessary consequence of God's wrath, God's justice, and the presence of evil.

There is at least on branch of Christianty (Calvinists) that basically says that you can never choose to be a good person and be saved on your own, you can't even choose to accept Jesus, you are so sinful. The only ones to be saved are the ones who were chosen by God specifically.

Holla!

 

[Qlip]

Holla!

lol. So you're a Calvinist? Well, I always commend people who are willing to take their beliefs to the logical conclusion.

 

[Edgar]

Sins are often weighed by who they are committed against. Regardless of what humans are involved all sins offend God. God is so perfect, righteous, and holy any offense against him is astronomically evil.

What is astounding is not that God is wrathful and that there is a hell, but that God is loving and there is a heaven. People deserve wrath and Hell. They do not deserve love and heaven, yet many receive it.

What I personally found astounding is that God, an all powerful and all knowing being, gets offended. Getting offended has always seemed like such a base human reaction to me. Even when you think of enlightened people, like Gandhi, MLK, Mandela, etc, they weren't the kind to "get offended and dish out the appropriate punishment". And these are mere mortals, not divine beings, not to mention the ultimate divinity.

I don't personally believe in God in general, but if I did, I'd be very skeptical at the idea of Him setting up internment camps for the "good" and "evil". Sounds like some head of a military junta, or a hardass camp counselor - not divinity. A much more logical explanation of the concepts of Heaven in Hell is a social construct to encourage certain types of behavior seen beneficial to society. Like for example, to encourage militarism, the Vikings came up with the concept of Varhalla, a heavenly place where only those slain in battle are allowed to enter.

 

[JAVO]

I'm not suggesting that hell should be focused on but I'm quite curious as to why it's considered irrelevant or non-existent in some cases. What is it about hell that makes people not want to even acknowledge or discuss it's existence?

[MENTION=4212]Peguy[/MENTION] stated some likely explanations.

If there's a belief system which will improve my quality of life and aesthetic experience of it dramatically enough that I would choose it regardless of the consequences in the afterlife, and it also happens to offer a better afterlife, then hell is personally irrelevant to me. The existence of hell is more of an outcome of these perspectives than a critical deciding factor.

 

[Nicodemus]

What I personally found astounding is that God, an all powerful and all knowing being, gets offended. Getting offended has always seemed like such a base human reaction to me. Even when you think of enlightened people, like Gandhi, MLK, Lincoln, Mandela, etc, they weren't the kind to "get offended and dish out the appropriate punishment". And these are mere mortals, not divine beings, not to mention the ultimate divinity.

Another interesting point, though it will certainly not sway any believer, is that for a temporal, ephemeral, tiny offense such as never having heard of god, humans must suffer in hell for all eternity. Even if god is majorly pissed, an eternal punishment of horrors beyond imagination seems a little disproportionate.

 

[JAVO]

Another interesting point, though it will certainly not sway any believer, is that for a temporal, ephemeral, tiny offense such as never having heard of god, humans must suffer in hell for all eternity. Even if god is majorly pissed, an eternal punishment of horrors beyond imagination seems like a little disproportionate.

Not all belief systems which incorporate the existence of God or a god and a place of eternal punishment agree with this. Many with a Christian perspective would say that this characterization contradicts both God's mercy and justice.

 

[Edgar]

Not all belief systems which incorporate the existence of God or a god and a place of eternal punishment agree with this. Many with a Christian perspective would say that this characterization contradicts both God's mercy and justice.

God needs to get his shit in order. There's waaay too much white noise out there for a regular chump to figure out which denomination will get you to heaven and which one will damn you to hell.

 

[Nicodemus]

Not all belief systems which incorporate the existence of God or a god and a place of eternal punishment agree with this. Many with a Christian perspective would say that this characterization contradicts both God's mercy and justice.

Contradictions within belief systems? Unthinkable!