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View Poll Results: Does Hell exist?

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  • Yes

    19 30.65%
  • No

    43 69.35%
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  1. #71
    Senior Member Spurgeon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    I can't be completely sure of anything, really. But to the maximum amount I can be sure of something, I'm sure there's no hell. It makes no sense. It makes no rational or empirical sense that it would exist.
    It may be all very well to prove that such and such a revelation of God is consistent with reason, consistent with analogy, consistent with a thousand things; but the spirit which needs such argument is a spirit of rebellion against God.
    If there be a revelation, every part of it is of authority, and must be believed. Human thought is not the arbiter of truth, but the infallible Word is the end of all strife. It is not ours to say what the truth must be, or what we think it should be, or what we would like it to be, but reverently to sit down with open ear and willing heart to receive what God has spoken.

  2. #72
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qlip View Post
    I used to at one point, I was raised very religious. In fact when I was a kid my biggest fears were demon possession and alien abduction. I was taught that aliens were actually demons in disguise. Then I went through a point in life trying to summon demons then I went through an atheistic phase.

    Now, hmm, I don't believe so, not strictly. But I believe in a metaphoric existence of demons, which can be really real if it fits into your world view. Real things, real problems, real malevolent forces materialize into forms that you expect.



    I believe hell is a state of existence present when you are separated from God. So yes I believe in hell. I'm pretty sure, though that I don't believe in God the same way that you do and I'm sure I don't believe in its manifestation in the same way as you.

    So, my answers are, Yes and No. I'm a professional sword edge walker.
    What is your conception of God? What do you mean by the metaphoric sense of Demons?

    I was brought up in an average RC household, wouldnt consider it particularly religious, although I have to say that I had a common experience of fearing demonic possession, also a fear of vampires but it was objectively the same thing, and also the devil in person, I remember stories of a very medieval kind in which the devil would appear in person and trick people, try to get them to sell their soul, that kind of thing having some currency in the story books we had growing up.

    I do believe that this life, as it is, can provide foretastes of both heaven or hell. I also believe that this life could be heaven or hell for everyone, that is I believe in the prophetic messianism of the old testament when they spoke heaven or paradise as "the world to come" and meant it in the sense of historical time or an eventuality when God or his spirit would return to the earth. In the RCC and Christian tradition that I'm part of this old testament sense is not invalidated by the new testaments teaching that everlasting life and heaven and hell are transcendent states, or the Celts and earlier belief systems described it, the otherworld, the book of revelation combines these seperate beliefs.

    The idea of there being an embodiment of evil which is seperate from and not the invention of humanity, or some sort of metaphorical or literary tool, is not difficult for me to believe, I think there's other less plausible beliefs. Although there are very good treatments of this in literature, usually involving devils or devilry being or becoming obsolete because they are overtaken by human evil. Its easy to believe that there's plenty of evil besides devils or demons but I still think they are an archetypical source.

  3. #73
    Nerd King Usurper Edgar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beefeater View Post
    The difference is that: 1) God is perfect and entitled to not being mistreated. Do not confuse this with needing to be treated with respect and honor. God doesn't need anything. 2) God doesn't "dish out the appropriate punishment" because he universally treats people better than they deserve.
    Hell is a creation specifically designed to dish out punishment, is it not?
    Listen to me, baby, you got to understand, you're old enough to learn the makings of a man.

  4. #74
    LL P. Stewie Beorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edgar View Post
    Hell is a creation specifically designed to dish out punishment, is it not?
    Yes, but my point is if a person lived one day, saw a beautiful sunset, and they then died and went to hell they would be treated better than they deserved. God not only deals out punishment he also deals out mercy and grace being responsible for every good thing that comes into a person's life.
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    So you can let go when you give it

  5. #75
    No moss growing on me Giggly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nebbykoo View Post
    All evil is human in origin. The concept of hell is just a convenient way of avoiding resposibility.
    Please explain.

  6. #76
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Hell isnt evidence of a punitive God, anymore than the availability of alcohol for sale is to blame for addicts being perpetually drunk, seriously I cant handle the extent to which people dont have a grip on natural consequences or dont want to get a grip on consequences.

  7. #77
    No moss growing on me Giggly's Avatar
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    Please vote in the poll.

  8. #78
    Nerd King Usurper Edgar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beefeater View Post
    God doesn't "dish out the appropriate punishment" because he universally treats people better than they deserve.
    Quote Originally Posted by Beefeater View Post
    Yes, but my point is if a person lived one day, saw a beautiful sunset, and they then died and went to hell they would be treated better than they deserved. God not only deals out punishment he also deals out mercy and grace being responsible for every good thing that comes into a person's life.
    I'm sorry, but your statements are non sensical. Hell isn't really a punishment because we deserve worse than hell? Just because one deserves a worse punishment than hell doesn't mean hell isn't a punishment, since the purpose of hell is specifically designed to inflict pain.

    Also, what do you base your opinion on what people deserve and don't deserve?
    Listen to me, baby, you got to understand, you're old enough to learn the makings of a man.

  9. #79
    LL P. Stewie Beorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edgar View Post
    There is inconsistency in your statements.
    How so?


    Quote Originally Posted by Edgar View Post
    Also, what do you base your opiniona on what people deserve and don't deserve?
    The bible, observation and reason.
    Take the weakest thing in you
    And then beat the bastards with it
    And always hold on when you get love
    So you can let go when you give it

  10. #80
    Post Human Post Qlip's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    What is your conception of God? What do you mean by the metaphoric sense of Demons?
    Okay.. it's important to know that my belief and my conception of God came about as I was trying to answer very personal questions. As a result, my understandings are also very personal, and maybe not terribly helpful to others.

    I think essentially, I forget the word, that everything is God.. there's nothing separate from anything fundamentally. Also, though, God is more than everything we have 'access' to as people. So, Evil is equally a part of God as Good is. God is not the God of everything good, God is the God of existence which encompasses matter and other rarer forms of manifestation, like ideas, and ideals. So.. we are limited to perception of differentiations in our normal state, and God's existence extends beyond that. All that 'who created God?' jazz doesn't register with me at all, because what's important is that God 'meta-created' existance and nonexistance. This is easy to say, but there is nothing to logically discuss about it, it's a waste of time.

    So what is Evil, and what is a demon? Well, Evil is actually easily explainable when you understand that we are God also. Evil is really an effect of disharmony having to do with our decisions, Good is harmony, neither of which is not God. A demon is just Evil personified. This probably can happen a lot of ways, we tend to personify things in order to interact with them. I don't rule out the idea of external manifestations of Evil, but to me.. some sort of supernatural occurance is not any different than just somebody being a bad person. And neither is some sort of supernatural good force any different than somebody being a good person.

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