User Tag List

View Poll Results: Does Hell exist?

Voters
62. You may not vote on this poll
  • Yes

    19 30.65%
  • No

    43 69.35%
First 81617181920 Last

Results 171 to 180 of 208

  1. #171
    Senior Member Sanctus Iacobus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    MBTI
    STP
    Posts
    286

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by KDude View Post
    I'm not bashing anything. I'm just stating it. Why so defensive?

    The truth is, your gospel is not as easy as you make it out to be. You don't expect anyone to just believe in Jesus. You have many other prerequisites, else you look unkindly on others. Case in point, you expect them to not address any supposed facts at all. Admit it or not, it's part of your gospel. We can't even get to Jesus yet.
    It's one of those things where you'll say what you call "fact" and I'll say what I call "fact" and it ends up in people bashing one another personally because it's tough to prove on an internet forum!

    As for the rest of what you said, that is entirely untrue! Maybe if you're talking about religion. The love of Jesus surpasses all of that and in His lifetime He often rebuked the religious leaders for standing in between Him and the people who need Him. Jesus does not turn people away. In fact, this is the only prerequisite to a sincere rebirth of faith... that we must become like children. Children do not have a bunch of false notions and worrisome expectations to prevent them from doing things, they just do them. They don't think about all the prerequisites they don't meet. Do you remember ever being like that? That is the relationship God the Father desires with you. God wants to adopt sons, and He does this through belief in His only begotten Son Jesus, so that nobody can brag about it, since it was not them who achieved it but Jesus. His accomplishment is imparted to us through our belief in Him.


    Religion and Christianity are very different. They can almost be opposites. For instance, if Abraham was religious, he would have told God that he could not commit murder and disobeyed when he was told to sacrifice his son Isaac (which he had waited a very long time to have, by the way). We too often think of "God's command" as a list of rules like the 10 commandments and forget that the 10 commandments were given to the Israelites personally for their present circumstances. The "command" of God is as living and active as God is. This is because religion makes God out to be distant, uninterested, and for the most part not even alive or interested in a personal relationship. However, this makes no sense, considering God made us to be close to Him, enjoy Him and have our needs fulfilled by Him (worship), and have a loving relationship with Him that lasts forever. God doesn't need anything... why else would he make us except to glorify Himself by our creation and loving relationship to Him (and enjoying Him in the process)?

    When you write it down as a bunch of rules, take God out of the picture, then worship the rules, then you have religion. Christianity is about Jesus, who is the very one the command of God is for in the first place, therefore Jesus is greater than the commands and there is no prerequisites because Jesus fulfills them all for you. This way you can have, you know... a real relationship in the present moment. Jesus didn't die so people can have a religion.

    The reason we always talk about believing is because that's the hard part. It's not like anything we've known before we experience it. God knows this is hard for us to believe, which is why it is the primary concern as well as the only requirement: believe. Forget the rules, we're way past that... everyone got an F on that test. Believe in God and see His solution to it all: Jesus Christ. Believe like you did when you were a kid and go to Jesus (i.e. pray... He's not here in the flesh anymore He is in heaven). That's all it takes. There is no catch.
    Good intentions are not enough.

  2. #172
    Senior Member Synapse's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    MBTI
    INFP
    Enneagram
    4
    Socionics
    INFp
    Posts
    3,403

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by KDude View Post
    So avoiding the world, and it's trappings, is balance, eh?

    I can't believe that.
    Who said about avoiding the world?
    You know God and Jesus are a wounded masculine archetype and Mary is a wounded feminine archetype, I wonder where wholeness in masculine and feminine archetypes reside? This theme like pattern seems to be in many cultures and backgrounds this woundedness and separation removed from wholeness, its too unusual to dismiss.

  3. #173
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    8,263

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Synapse View Post
    Who said about avoiding the world?
    You know God and Jesus are a wounded masculine archetype and Mary is a wounded feminine archetype, I wonder where wholeness in masculine and feminine archetypes reside? This theme like pattern seems to be in many cultures and backgrounds this woundedness and separation removed from wholeness, its too unusual to dismiss.
    You talk about avoiding the world often. Something about not letting it's "energy" in or something. And here you mention not wanting the world creating "stories" for you.

    In any case, I'm not the world's biggest fan, but what you say doesn't sound balanced to me to either. I would think any kind of balanced existence goes both ways.

  4. #174
    Writing... Tamske's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    MBTI
    ENTP
    Posts
    1,764

    Default

    Hmmm, why such a thorough discussion about the existence of hell?
    I took the question literally, as it seemed to me that the first post was pointing to that meaning. So hell, as a place where humans get punished after their death, doesn't exist.
    It would be perfectly evil to create a world, put some beings in it, and punish them for ever if they don't behave according to some morals they don't know. I mean - what's going to put you in hell? Being not a muslim? Or being not a christian? Being gay? Wearing clothes of mixed fabric?
    God, in al his power, could have been clearer. If I taught my lessons as confusing as he does, I would be fired and rightly so.
    So even if there is a god who makes such a place, and even if he makes it perfectly clear he exists and will put me into hell for not worshipping him, I'm not going to worship him. Because a god who does this is evil.

    To be clear: I don't believe in a god, I don't believe in heaven, I don't believe in hell.

    Of course, hell in a metaphorical sense is a whole other story. War is hell. Hunger and drought can lead to hellish situations... In that sense, I think hell is very real. And it's in our human power to abolish it.
    Got questions? Ask an ENTP!
    I'm female. I just can't draw women

  5. #175
    Senior Member Synapse's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    MBTI
    INFP
    Enneagram
    4
    Socionics
    INFp
    Posts
    3,403

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by KDude View Post
    You talk about avoiding the world often. Something about not letting it's "energy" in or something. And here you mention not wanting the world creating "stories" for you.

    In any case, I'm not the world's biggest fan, but what you say doesn't sound balanced to me to either. I would think any kind of balanced existence goes both ways.
    Could be the old me, whether I talk about it in the last few months to a year as much as prior to then who knows. You misunderstand. 99% of the population is imbalanced. The genuinely balanced people happen to be children before the imbalance starts.

    This changes once perceptions and values of wounded feminine and masculine energies, people, feed the child their stories they think is true which were learned from their upbringing that their generations thought were true...this leads to a cycle of wounding, many unhealthy scripts. This then becomes reinforced in society by pretty much everyone. It is rare you will find another person who will be balanced. If you dig deep enough, ask enough questions you will find very few people are able to reconcile their woundings.

    By letting the world create stories for you you are giving away your power to the world and in turn your identity. To change this by reclaiming your power by creating your stories rather than the world means you are now changing towards a balanced view without avoidance. For then you create the boundaries to know, understand why the world, people in your life are wounded.

    Until you start actively changing yourself you will find my words baffling.

  6. #176
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    8,263

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Synapse View Post
    Until you start actively changing yourself you will find my words baffling.
    I once put a guy in the hospital by slamming his head into a concrete wall. Why? Because he didn't give me 50 cents. It was that retarded. And tragic. And..evil, I would say. This is only one thing, but needless to say, I've changed from that stage. I know change as well as the next person.

    I'm not going to get into my whole life story, but I think you assume too much probably.

    And I don't find you baffling. You should understand that I find you disagreeable instead. There's not going to be any step where if I did this or saw that, then I'd be less confused by you. It's just that I don't like what you're saying (Your values sound commendable, don't get me wrong. You just lose me when you start making it about you and the entire world. I don't think you know much of anything about the world to begin with).

  7. #177
    Senior Member Tiltyred's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    MBTI
    INFP
    Enneagram
    468 sx/sp
    Socionics
    EII None
    Posts
    4,383

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Sanctus Iacobus View Post
    It's one of those things where you'll say what you call "fact" and I'll say what I call "fact" and it ends up in people bashing one another personally because it's tough to prove on an internet forum!

    As for the rest of what you said, that is entirely untrue! Maybe if you're talking about religion. The love of Jesus surpasses all of that and in His lifetime He often rebuked the religious leaders for standing in between Him and the people who need Him. Jesus does not turn people away. In fact, this is the only prerequisite to a sincere rebirth of faith... that we must become like children. Children do not have a bunch of false notions and worrisome expectations to prevent them from doing things, they just do them. They don't think about all the prerequisites they don't meet. Do you remember ever being like that? That is the relationship God the Father desires with you. God wants to adopt sons, and He does this through belief in His only begotten Son Jesus, so that nobody can brag about it, since it was not them who achieved it but Jesus. His accomplishment is imparted to us through our belief in Him.


    Religion and Christianity are very different. They can almost be opposites. For instance, if Abraham was religious, he would have told God that he could not commit murder and disobeyed when he was told to sacrifice his son Isaac (which he had waited a very long time to have, by the way). We too often think of "God's command" as a list of rules like the 10 commandments and forget that the 10 commandments were given to the Israelites personally for their present circumstances. The "command" of God is as living and active as God is. This is because religion makes God out to be distant, uninterested, and for the most part not even alive or interested in a personal relationship. However, this makes no sense, considering God made us to be close to Him, enjoy Him and have our needs fulfilled by Him (worship), and have a loving relationship with Him that lasts forever. God doesn't need anything... why else would he make us except to glorify Himself by our creation and loving relationship to Him (and enjoying Him in the process)?

    When you write it down as a bunch of rules, take God out of the picture, then worship the rules, then you have religion. Christianity is about Jesus, who is the very one the command of God is for in the first place, therefore Jesus is greater than the commands and there is no prerequisites because Jesus fulfills them all for you. This way you can have, you know... a real relationship in the present moment. Jesus didn't die so people can have a religion.

    The reason we always talk about believing is because that's the hard part. It's not like anything we've known before we experience it. God knows this is hard for us to believe, which is why it is the primary concern as well as the only requirement: believe. Forget the rules, we're way past that... everyone got an F on that test. Believe in God and see His solution to it all: Jesus Christ. Believe like you did when you were a kid and go to Jesus (i.e. pray... He's not here in the flesh anymore He is in heaven). That's all it takes. There is no catch.
    This is how I learned it, too.
    What denomination are you? I'm curious because the more I am on the internet, the more I realize that gazillions of people who believe things completely other than this also call themselves Christians. The word almost has no meaning anymore because there's so little agreement among all the people who identify as Christians. So I am curious what exactly you call this.
    (I'm not sure what I think anymore.)

    P.S. Are you a dispensationalist? Does that go along with your school of belief? Or would you call that a heresy?

  8. #178
    Senior Member fripping's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    MBTI
    nerd
    Posts
    162

    Default

    of course it does. it's called monday-friday, 9-5.

  9. #179
    Senior Member Sanctus Iacobus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    MBTI
    STP
    Posts
    286

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Tiltyred View Post
    This is how I learned it, too.
    What denomination are you? I'm curious because the more I am on the internet, the more I realize that gazillions of people who believe things completely other than this also call themselves Christians. The word almost has no meaning anymore because there's so little agreement among all the people who identify as Christians. So I am curious what exactly you call this.
    (I'm not sure what I think anymore.)

    P.S. Are you a dispensationalist? Does that go along with your school of belief? Or would you call that a heresy?
    Here are my views (1 Corinthians 1:10-17)

    http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/...17&version=NIV


    This illustrates that even with things like denomination we can miss the point. God cares about the heart and therefore the unity of the church is more important than determining one person being right in doctrine and one being wrong... as there is truly only 1 right doctrine--only Jesus is righteous and we are only righteous as much as Jesus lives within us. What is the true church besides the body of Christ? That is... Christ is no longer here in body, but He left the Holy Spirit, who indwells our body and lives the life of Jesus through this present age. Hence, the "body"... and this is the only true church. It is not a building or religious organization.

    I've never heard of dispensationalism, but I do not believe it's important to get caught up on whether things like that are accurate for the very reason I outlined above... as soon as we ask the question, we're already wrong, like Jesus' disciples were when they discussed which amongst them was the greatest.
    Good intentions are not enough.

  10. #180
    Senior Member Tiltyred's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    MBTI
    INFP
    Enneagram
    468 sx/sp
    Socionics
    EII None
    Posts
    4,383

    Default

    Thank you for sharing your beliefs. It's very interesting to read.
    What is the name of the church you attend? Do you identify as a Protestant, or a Baptist, or a Methodist, or an Evangelical, or a Charismatic, or any of such things?

Similar Threads

  1. Free Will, does it exist?
    By ygolo in forum Philosophy and Spirituality
    Replies: 55
    Last Post: 09-04-2016, 10:03 AM
  2. The place where spontaneity does not exist
    By Virtual ghost in forum The Bonfire
    Replies: 11
    Last Post: 03-16-2009, 04:07 PM
  3. does there exist some theory out there based on these type groupings?
    By velocity in forum Myers-Briggs and Jungian Cognitive Functions
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 03-10-2009, 01:01 PM
  4. Type xxxx - Does It Exist?
    By RansomedbyFire in forum Myers-Briggs and Jungian Cognitive Functions
    Replies: 31
    Last Post: 09-26-2007, 08:32 AM
  5. Justice does not exist
    By Sahara in forum The Bonfire
    Replies: 75
    Last Post: 08-03-2007, 01:24 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO