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View Poll Results: Does Hell exist?

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  • Yes

    19 30.65%
  • No

    43 69.35%
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  1. #161
    Senior Member Synapse's Avatar
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    Hell is your heaven and heaven is your hell. Earth bound logic distorted in earth bound ideologies from a dualistic point of view. When you remove the lopsided perception literature and scripture place in the super subconscious to create the illusion of what is and what isn't then you receive a different kind of knowing. This is primary in an understanding that yes there are worlds between worlds, and yes if you are conceptualising most of it in local polarities then these are your limiters of belief. Indeed when you start to understand the nonlocality of this earth bound experience is much broader and comprehensive than the current limited paradigms of heaven and hell, dualities, like all dualities of which are many. Then death consciousness needs no longer apply, it is the journey not the destination that matter, the journey into the heart is thy knower of truths. Which disperses the notations that heaven and hell are local expressions, which they are born from fear, doubt, insecurity, shame, pride, greed, prejudice, judgment etc. Were these ideas born from unconditional love then the whole view would shift, indeed the paradigm as it were from a material, mind concept of heaven and hell to a different kind. Much more strongly connected than earthly paradigms which personality creates pockets of realities, like weights, burdens towards these ideas.

    How much different life might become when many conditions are released and new words become manifest that creates unification rather than separation. That is what this is, separation, separation from self, separation from others, separation from a host of things, things that articulate this that or other. but what is this that or other upon this earthen abode as defined by a hell, a heaven. A way station, a bridge, towards an expansion in consciousness, teachers towards our filament of being our energy affirmed as a nonlocal journey, across cellular memory, across the time and space.

    These ideas, are ideas that create boxes which create safety zones when the mind is conditioned to believe it as such, and freedom when the heart starts seeing and paradigms shift when drama's energy changes nonlocally as much.

  2. #162
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Synapse View Post
    Indeed when you start to understand the nonlocality of this earth bound experience is much broader and comprehensive than the current limited paradigms of heaven and hell, dualities, like all dualities of which are many.
    I like dualities though. If anything, because of the inherent drama. Makes for good comic books at least.

  3. #163
    Senior Member Synapse's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KDude View Post
    I like dualities though. If anything, because of the inherent drama. Makes for good comic books at least.
    Serves its purpose I suppose, if being in service of sufferance of woundings is a necessary learning, to be stuck with mirrors all of life seems strange. When there is a way to deprogram the distortion towards genuine balance then we become the story creators, the world stops being story creators for us. I for one intend to move past the road blocks that take away power and restore, become my power source well and truly, in fearless gratitude.

  4. #164
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Synapse View Post
    Serves its purpose I suppose, if being in service of sufferance of woundings is a necessary learning, to be stuck with mirrors all of life seems strange. When there is a way to deprogram the distortion towards genuine balance then we become the story creators, the world stops being story creators for us. I for one intend to move past the road blocks that take away power and restore, become my power source well and truly, in fearless gratitude.
    So avoiding the world, and it's trappings, is balance, eh?

    I can't believe that.

  5. #165
    Senior Member Lily flower's Avatar
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    If you read the stories of people who experience Near Death, or one of those "dead for 15 minutes", then revived stories, some are of heaven, but some are also of hell. Even on earth, we see both heaven (good, love) and hell (evil, hate). If they are both here while we are alive, why do we think there will only be heaven after we die? Thinking that way is kind of naive and extremely over-hopeful.

    The Bible teaches that hell was designed for Satan and his angels (ie demons), and evil - ie the cause of most suffering in the world) but that God would like everyone to be with Him, not in Hell (that was the whole purpose of sending Jesus to save us),

    but God is a gentleman in that he doesn't force anyone to be with Him that doesn't want to. So the people who don't want to be with him have to go somewhere, because we are created to be eternal spirits. The reason it is "hell" is because God is all good, and if you go somewhere where there is no good, then it is obviously going to be hellish.

  6. #166
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    I take near-death experiences to be delirium and they don't convince me of much.
    Go to sleep, iguana.


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  7. #167
    Senior Member Sanctus Iacobus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    I think God gives free will but has a plan, people can deviate from it if they want, although they will be happier if they dont and will know themselves when they are living according to it or not.
    Good surmise. Man has total free will within the dominion that God gave to Adam. Unfortunately, Adam gave up his dominion to Eve, who had been seduced by Satan, effectively giving man's dominion to Satan. Since God gave dominion of earth to man, and God cannot contradict Himself, God had to come to earth as a man, Jesus, to reclaim the eternal souls of men, restore creation to a new earth, and take His rightful place as eternal King, on earth.

    Hell is where the "chaff" go. That is, when Jesus comes to reclaim dominion, some will believe in His salvation and be claimed in Jesus Christ as sons of God, receiving all Christ has (the total glorification of God) and the rest, who refuse to recognize Jesus for who He is and remain in a state of fallen short of the glorification of God, will be burned, which is something we do every day with waste and things which no longer serve their purpose... which by default, is all of us (unless we are in Christ in this life, then we get to be with Him upon His return and not cast away to be burned).

    Whether a person believes in hell is irrelevant, of course. Whether you believe Jesus, and believe He is the son of God, and believe that only Jesus fully glorifies God and you don't, and thus need Jesus (all of this is a free gift, given by God's grace to those who ask)... that is what determines whether you will go to hell or not. Again, whether a person believes in hell is irrelevant, as not believing it exists isn't going to make it go away, just like not believing in taxes doesn't mean you don't have to pay them.
    Good intentions are not enough.

  8. #168
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
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    Except, the Adam and Eve story chronologically takes place 6,000 years ago, and modern humans are at least 200,000 years old. It doesn't help that Genesis' stories were shared in various forms across Mesopotamia by people who didn't worship the same god or gods. It's just a story one tribe took and adapted for their purposes, because that's what they knew best at the time. I think it's a mistake building an entire theology, let alone, cosmology, out of it.

    I'd really like to believe in Jesus' purpose to be a sacrifice - it makes it easy for me. I don't have to do anything but accept his gift, in that case. But if that was the case, then his whole life was kind of pointless up until the point he died on the cross. He was at least 33 years old - he spent a relatively long time on earth (especially for his era), but in this convenient form of the gospel, nothing he did or said means anything except the last 3 days when he visits Jerusalem and gets killed. If that's all God wanted, then maybe God should have just sacrificed him as an infant.

    I'd like to think following Jesus means actually listening to what he said, and not just licking the blood from his wounds.

  9. #169
    Senior Member Sanctus Iacobus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KDude View Post
    Except, the Adam and Eve story chronologically takes place 6,000 years ago, and modern humans are at least 200,000 years old. It doesn't help that Genesis' stories were shared in various forms across Mesopotamia by people who didn't worship the same god or gods. It's just a story one tribe took and adapted for their purposes, because that's what they knew best at the time. I think it's a mistake building an entire theology, let alone, cosmology, out of it.

    I'd really like to believe in Jesus' purpose to be a sacrifice - it makes it easy for me. I don't have to do anything but accept his gift, in that case. But if that was the case, then his whole life was kind of pointless up until the point he died on the cross. He was at least 33 years old - he spent a relatively long time on earth (especially for his era), but in this convenient form of the gospel, nothing he did or said means anything except the last 3 days when he visits Jerusalem and gets killed. If that's all God wanted, then maybe God should have just sacrificed him as an infant.

    I'd like to think following Jesus means actually listening to what he said, and not just licking the blood from his wounds.
    I'll just skip the part you say about humanity being 200,000 years old because this has endless "fact" bashing argument written all over it.

    Jesus was human and lived a human life. His purpose was to do the will of God the Father and achieve all glory, apparently that took 33 years. Jesus did a lot of things before and after His death and resurrection too. Also, Jesus didn't "get killed", He allowed it because it was the will of God the Father. There was plenty of times Jesus avoided capture, and He told His disciples at the last supper and even walking the road to where He would be captured that He had to die.

    Therefore, it is no surprise that what He taught and told followers do aligned with what He accomplished on the cross. See:

    28 Then they asked him, “What must we do to do the works God requires?”
    29 Jesus answered, “The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent.”
    30 So they asked him, “What sign then will you give that we may see it and believe you? What will you do? 31 Our ancestors ate the manna in the wilderness; as it is written: ‘He gave them bread from heaven to eat.’[c]”
    32 Jesus said to them, “Very truly I tell you, it is not Moses who has given you the bread from heaven, but it is my Father who gives you the true bread from heaven. 33 For the bread of God is the bread that comes down from heaven and gives life to the world.”
    34 “Sir,” they said, “always give us this bread.”
    35 Then Jesus declared, “I am the bread of life. Whoever comes to me will never go hungry, and whoever believes in me will never be thirsty. (John 6)

    Jesus later refers to Himself as bread at the last supper:

    26 While they were eating, Jesus took bread, and when he had given thanks, he broke it and gave it to his disciples, saying, “Take and eat; this is my body which is for you.”

    We can safely draw the conclusion that partaking in Jesus' sacrifice was not only His will and desire, but also what was to be done as the work of a follower: to believe in Him and what He accomplished, and thus partake in the use of Jesus' body as an atoning sacrifice for the sins of all who believe.

    "Believe" is a little hard to understand in this context, so I'll put it this way. When Adam and Eve sinned in the garden, God has to kill an animal to atone for them, and then used the fur of the dead animal to clothe them. In the same way, those who "believe" clothe themselves in the atoning sacrifice of Jesus which covers their sins, since all have fallen short of God's glory, but Christ did not, we get this status if we believe in Him (and by necessity therefore not believing in ourselves, we take off our old self and put on Jesus' right relationship with God the Father). Also, the Holy Spirit works from inside a person to change them and do a new work through that person, founded entirely on belief (which is faith).
    Good intentions are not enough.

  10. #170
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sanctus Iacobus View Post
    I'll just skip the part you say about humanity being 200,000 years old because this has endless "fact" bashing argument written all over it.
    I'm not bashing anything. I'm just stating it. Why so defensive?

    The truth is, your gospel is not as easy as you make it out to be. You don't expect anyone to just believe in Jesus. You have many other prerequisites, else you look unkindly on others. Case in point, you expect them to not address any supposed facts at all. Admit it or not, it's part of your gospel. We can't even get to Jesus yet.

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