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  1. #11
    Senior Member Santosha's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    I have discovered that for me there is something below thinking. It is almost like another person. At first I found it odd until I was able to rationalise it. And now I enjoy it..
    Does Victor have a soul? An essence? =P
    Man suffers only because he takes seriously what the gods made for fun - Watts

  2. #12
    Certified Sausage Smoker Elfboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    Yes, we rationalise it afterwards. And by rationalising it, we turn it into a linear, sequential form - just like the text on a printed page.
    However the irrational can be experienced directly, without print. We can get to know the irrational. We can learn to swim in the irrational. We can learn to develop the irrational. We do this everytime we use the telephone, or the television or the internet.
    Yes, what was iriational and unconscious in the literate mind, beoomes conscious and shared in the electronic mind.
    exactly. this is why so many intellectuals loose all motivation to exist. they may be more knowledgeable and more rational, but an irrational motivation and "spark" are needed to really get out their and do things. a balance between the rational and irrational mind is essential for acquisition, success and happiness.
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  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elfboy View Post
    exactly. this is why so many intellectuals loose all motivation to exist. they may be more knowledgeable and more rational, but an irrational motivation and "spark" are needed to really get out their and do things. a balance between the rational and irrational mind is essential for acquisition, success and happiness.
    I've never lost my ability to survive and fight, but I've still managed to avoid being a completely self-absorbed greedy piece of shit at the same time.

    I'm proud of that.

    I'm very similar to my adoptive Argentinian family that way - you know people who came from a horrible place and survived, but still value and share with others.

    I'm kind of like that.

    I think that's why I've got along with several of the Russians I've met, as well - the ability to take care of self and not take any shit, but also they don't seem to lose that initial tie to collectivism.

    May be inherent in Southern culture. BRB.

  4. #14
    Certified Sausage Smoker Elfboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmie Dearest View Post
    I've never lost my ability to survive and fight, but I've still managed to avoid being a completely self-absorbed greedy piece of shit at the same time.
    I'm proud of that.
    I'm very similar to my adoptive Argentinian family that way - you know people who came from a horrible place and survived, but still value and share with others.
    I'm kind of like that.
    I think that's why I've got along with several of the Russians I've met, as well - the ability to take care of self and not take any shit, but also they don't seem to lose that initial tie to collectivism.
    May be inherent in Southern culture. BRB.
    I'm sorry, but I fail to see how this is relevant to my post.
    for the record though, I disagree with collectivism because it views a human being a tool to perpetuate the whole of humanity. I believe that every human is of high value and that service to a group or entity is not necessary to justify one's existence. I believe that the existence of a all individuals is inherently justified. while i support proactive, supportive groups, loosing sight of one's own individuality and importance can lead to desire consequences
    ENFP: We put the Fi in Fire
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  5. #15
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    Also: Auburn Sucks

    [YOUTUBE="Iqn-9n0X4ig"]Squidbillies - T-Pain/Early - 'Auburn Sucks' - 9/11/11 [/YOUTUBE]

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elfboy View Post
    I'm sorry, but I fail to see how this is relevant to my post.
    for the record though, I disagree with collectivism because it views a human being a tool to perpetuate the whole of humanity. I believe that every human is of high value and that service to a group or entity is not necessary to justify one's existence. I believe that the existence of a all individuals is inherently justified. while i support proactive, supportive groups, loosing sight of one's own individuality and importance can lead to desire consequences
    Because it's my life philosophy. I am very...Argentinian...Mexican...Russian...black...I got told tonight that I'm "half-black" ...you know why? Because I tell people to shut the fuck up when I'm sleeping and then share my food with them.

    My INTJ math professor from the former Soviet Union AND my ENTJ friend who is like fifteen years younger who was shielded entirely by his parents from Soviet communism both share this healthy balance of selfishness and collectivism.

    If you don't see how helping others is helping yourself, and that there's safety in numbers, and joy in sharing empanadas with chimichurri sauce, then you lack my brother, not myself.

  7. #17
    Certified Sausage Smoker Elfboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmie Dearest View Post
    Because it's my life philosophy. I am very...Argentinian...Mexican...Russian...black...I got told tonight that I'm "half-black" ...you know why? Because I tell people to shut the fuck up when I'm sleeping and then share my food with them.

    My INTJ math professor from the former Soviet Union AND my ENTJ friend who is like fifteen years younger who was shielded entirely by his parents from Soviet communism both share this healthy balance of selfishness and collectivism.

    If you don't see how helping others is helping yourself, and that there's safety in numbers, and joy in sharing empanadas with chimichurri sauce, then you lack my brother, not myself.
    I'm not saying helping others does not help me, is clearly does, but putting the well being of others before my own... that's a completely different story.
    PS: I also get called half black frequently because my speech tends to be more colorful, unapologetic and full of "personality". one of my nicknames in high school was "pale brotha"
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  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elfboy View Post
    I'm not saying helping others does not help me, is clearly does, but putting the well being of others before my own... that's a completely different story.
    PS: I also get called half black frequently because my speech tends to be more colorful, unapologetic and full of "personality". one of my nicknames in high school was "pale brotha"
    Ha ha! My mom says (because of my "colorful speech") "you sound like a black girl!!!!" ...I am the twenty to thirty years forward version of her, she just doesn't get it...she was the hippie/biker chick...and I am the forward version of my current environment. It's funny to have an ESFP protest, ever, about this kind of thing...because my sisters and I are generally so proud of my mom for being so "with it" and "cool" and "fun."

    I don't put others in front of me, that's stupid, but I put others with me.


    I think you and I are more alike than we acknowledge.

    I am not selfless.

    But I am not selfish.

  9. #19
    Certified Sausage Smoker Elfboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmie Dearest View Post
    Ha ha! My mom says (because of my "colorful speech") "you sound like a black girl!!!!" ...I am the twenty to thirty years forward version of her, she just doesn't get it...she was the hippie/biker chick...and I am the forward version of my current environment. It's funny to have an ESFP protest, ever, about this kind of thing...because my sisters and I are generally so proud of my mom for being so "with it" and "cool" and "fun."
    I don't put others in front of me, that's stupid, but I put others with me.
    I think you and I are more alike than we acknowledge.
    I am not selfless.
    But I am not selfish.
    all I'm saying is
    - if I have to choose between saving my life or other person's life/cause, I'm saving my own skin. self preservation > service
    - I am more motivated because I have chosen my own desires first. helping people is great, but if I don't help myself first, no one is going to benefit from me.

    you're right, I don't think we really disagree as much as you think we do. for instance, you tend to think of me as a snob, but my beliefs step from the idea that everyone is a highly valuable person inherently and deserves freedom and the ability to be expressive and ambitious. my "snobbery" comes from the fact that i dislike when people don't value themselves because it makes everyone suffer. when I say someone or something is low class. what I mean is that their mindset is low class, not their identity
    I like things that are classy because they communicate
    - regality
    - personal integrity
    - grace
    - natural, unapologetic sexuality
    and
    - inspiration

    I dislike things that are low class because they tend to communicate
    - low self worth
    - reactive emotional responses and lack of poise and self control
    - a willingness to settle for the sub-par
    and
    - a belief that they are not in control of their lives
    ENFP: We put the Fi in Fire
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  10. #20
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Huxley3112 View Post
    Does Victor have a soul? An essence? =P
    I guess the question might be - do I have a supernatural soul or a natural soul?

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