Victor's thoughts on makeup

[Stanton Moore]

Saying make up can be like a mask is not the only facet of his argument. And there's nothing new under the sun but that doesn't mean it's irrelevant.

[MENTION=6466]nebbykoo[/MENTION] : Wow that is really personal and presumptuous. Where do you get off saying stuff like that?

It wasn't intended to insult him. You misunderstood.

 

[redcheerio]

Victor,

You come one here speaking of spirituality (which is really the difference you describe when you talk of 'true self' and 'ideal self'), which seems very noble, until you realize that your desire to enlighten the masses here is really driven by your ego's need for admiration, or, in this case, martyrdom (which is itself a form of admiration).
Think about that for a moment.

[MENTION=6466]nebbykoo[/MENTION] : Wow that is really personal and presumptuous. Where do you get off saying stuff like that?

I think [MENTION=3325]Victor[/MENTION] has some really interesting perspectives to share. I just wish he would be willing to actually discuss them, as people typically would on a forum, since that is usually the purpose of posting them to a forum.

From what I've observed, it looks to me like this is the typical pattern:

- Victor posts a statement that looks like a proclamation about underlying meanings and intentions
- People challenge those statements and proclamations with their own opinions (the same as they would challenge statements made by others here, as this is a forum for the purpose of discussing things)
- Victor does not address the challenging statements or discuss them, but instead posts the same proclamation in different words
- People challenge them again
- Victor gets upset and feels victimized
- People recognize this pattern and respond in one of a number of ways:
a) ignore anything Victor posts since it seems pointless to respond,
b) make fun of him,
c) tell him to start another thread instead and stop derailing the topic at hand,
d) agree with him, since it seems to be the only way to get a response from him that doesn't involve him feeling victimized or "making it about him instead of the issue", or
d) empathize with him and stick up for him.

Victor, it seems to me like your experience here would be more enjoyable (for you and for everyone else) if you would be more willing to discuss your opinions with people who disagree, and expand on them and explain them more, rather than just declaring them from the soapbox and getting upset when people challenge you. It would make your contributions more interesting to everyone else, too.

What do you think?

 

[swordpath]

Our actual self, plus a brand, gives us our ideal self.

So brands serve the purpose of mediating between our real self and our ideal self.

So brands diss our real self and valorise our ideal self.

So brands poison us at our very core, and impose from the outside a phoney ideal self.

It's true, and we all know it, that beauty comes from within. And we know that the imposition of beauty from the outside is an imposture.

Hrrmmmm

 

[rav3n]

This is tragically true. But is far too painful to face. So we will say anything, believe anything, rather than move through the pain of knowing we are utterly unlovable, and then onto our deep and true self, who with open arms, and perhaps with a tear in the eye, will welcome us home.

This is more about projection than any vaunted higher morality framework or vaunted depth of insight, or some such.

There's nothing wrong with wanting to look like a hooker. Ladies, embrace your inner whore. Wear makeup and be happy!

 

[Salomé]

You've got to hand it to Vic - he knows how to draw out the shadows...

 

[Tiltyred]

This is more about projection than any vaunted higher morality framework or vaunted depth of insight, or some such.

There's nothing wrong with wanting to look like a hooker. Ladies, embrace your inner whore. Wear makeup and be happy!

Yes!
Also, IMO
There's nothing wrong with whatever you want to look like -- makeup or no makeup, tats or no tats, look like a whore or look like a schoolgirl -- express yourself and be happy. Indeed you are beautiful just as you are -- including all your embellishments and creative gestures and infatuations with different brands and general happiness in color and style and doing your thing.

 

[Patches]

This is more about projection than any vaunted higher morality framework or vaunted depth of insight, or some such.

There's nothing wrong with wanting to look like a hooker. Ladies, embrace your inner whore. Wear makeup and be happy!

And this whole time I thought I was just trying to even out my skin tone a bit.

 

[redcheerio]

And this whole time I thought I was just trying to even out my skin tone a bit.

No, we are all self-loathing manipulative phonies!

 

[Ginkgo]

This is more about projection than any vaunted higher morality framework or vaunted depth of insight, or some such.

There's nothing wrong with wanting to look like a hooker. Ladies, embrace your inner whore. Wear makeup and be happy!

Victor should wear make-up in a Julia Gillard charade to feel loved.

To be honest though, if you feel loved after dolling up, then you are capable of feeling loved. Make-up may not be the answer, but if it works, why not? It's ultimately up to you.

 

[rav3n]

Victor should wear make-up in a Julia Gillard charade to feel loved.

He's openly admitted to enjoying make up. It's heartening to see that he too, has embraced his inner whore!

To be honest though, if you feel loved after dolling up, then you are capable of feeling loved. Make-up may not be the answer, but if it works, why not? It's ultimately up to you.

That's the most comedic part of this thread. Dolling up doesn't make women feel loved but it can enhance what genetics has given you. Makeup is fun, as long as you're not addicted to it and feel uncomfortable walking out of the house without it.

 

[onemoretime]

So was this explanation for our benefit or for Victor's? I'm a little lost on what your purpose is here.
I don't think anyone is talking past anyone, honestly, but thanks for explaining what Victor thinks in case someone wasn't getting it.

No purpose, just thought it was an interesting point. Thought an explanation might defuse the tension a bit, and help me understand what the guy's saying. I don't think Victor's got anything but the best intentions in mind.

Maybe I'm reading this wrong, simply because you wrote it as a response to a comment of mine... so it comes off as trying to "correct" something I said.

Just a different perspective on the issue, nothing more. Feel free to take it or leave it as you will.

But my comment meant what it said, that not everything is about "winning a man" or "appealing to social standards of beauty" or whatever the hell else you guys would like it to mean.

Agreed. My chief point is that sexual attractiveness can be used as a form of power, which can be useful in workplaces for political reasons.

People are allowed to find beauty in the world and invest in creating beauty simply because they like it, as much as they would take a photograph or paint a picture or decorate a house in a way they found to resonate with themselves. Likewise, one reason women do use makeup is because they like how it makes them look, and it doesn't need to have anything to do with sex or power or some other ulterior motive. It CAN... but it doesn't need to.

That sounds like the start of an even more interesting conversation - from where or what comes our sense of aesthetics?

If my comment was too impenetrable, substitute "ironic" for "humorous."

Your feminine wiles have depleted me of all my ability to be penetrating . I guess I still don't see the irony. I frequently talk to friends about girls they and I have seen that have completely driven us to distraction. One view has it that this is why teenage boys, for the most part, do better in single-sex classrooms: keeps Darwin from getting in the way of study. Even in adult men, commenting on a woman's attractiveness is an age-old means of building camaraderie, but also a means of distracting people from the work at hand. Makeup alone causing all this is a little excessive, though.

I agree.

Cool.

 

[Ginkgo]

That's the most comedic part of this thread. Dolling up doesn't make women feel loved but it can enhance what genetics has given you. Makeup is fun, as long as you're not addicted to it and feel uncomfortable walking out of the house without it.

If I were you, I wouldn't expect any truth to come out of gross generalizations like that.

 

[rav3n]

If I were you, I wouldn't expect any truth to come out of gross generalizations like that.

Wasn't aware that truth was any part of this thread!

 

[Ginkgo]

Wasn't aware that truth was any part of this thread!

 

[Ginkgo]

Wasn't aware that truth was any part of this thread!

 

[rav3n]

Duck, duck, goose!

 

[Ginkgo]

Duck, duck, goose!

badger badger badger mushroom

it's a snaaaaake

 

[rav3n]

badger badger badger mushroom

it's a snaaaaake

Isn't that a form of makeup? In donning the snake, one display's one's intelligence level by displaying how close one gets to the snake.

 

[Ginkgo]

Isn't that a form of makeup? In donning the snake, one display's one's intelligence level by displaying how close one gets to the snake.

It's true. The Tree of Knowledge and such. That didn't work from Brittany Spears I don't think...

The snake also happens to love you and can't get enough.

 

[Antimony]

On Painting and Art

Our actual self, plus a brand, gives us our ideal self.

So brands serve the purpose of mediating between our real self and our ideal self.

So brands diss our real self and valorise our ideal self.

So brands poison us at our very core, and impose from the outside a phoney ideal self.

It's true, and we all know it, that beauty comes from within. And we know that the imposition of beauty from the outside is an imposture.

Our actual paper, plus a brand of paint, gives us our masterpiece.

So brands of paint serve the purpose of mediating between our piece of paper and our masterpiece.

So brands of paint diss our piece of paper and valorise our masterpiece.

So brands of paint poison our paper at its very core, and impose from the outside a phoney masterpiece.

It's true, and we all know it, that art comes from within. And we know that the imposition of paint from the outside is an imposture.

Makeup is just a mediation between our natural beautiful selves and our beautiful selves looking like works of art.