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  1. #411
    Ginkgo
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    Quote Originally Posted by Salomé View Post

    I could defend his ideas and explain why I think, rather than evidence of his “misogyny”, they are entirely in line with the opinions of feminists like Greer, Wolf and Levy (to name a few). But unpacking all the meaning embedded in the phrase “women mimic arousal” would take several pages, which is more investment than I’m prepared to give this forum right now. Perhaps more than he is too, when he is met with such unreasoning hostility.
    True. The claims that Victor is misogynistic and has a mother complex, which have been echoed several times, doesn't fall in line with the ideas he promotes. When I first booted up my account here, all he could talk about was the emancipation of women through liberal democracy and how much he loved it. He wouldn't ever shut up about it. Honestly, I think these claims about Victor are due to 1) ignorance about Victors ideas, 2) reading in between the lines to fill in the blanks.


    As for him being “off-limits”, almost every time he posts he’s met with a stream of abuse and personal attacks which are entirely sanctioned, even engaged in, by the mods, so your perception is a bit off.
    Exactly.

    I think the strength of feeling against Victor says more about the audience than it does him, and that offers us significant insight into ourselves. Isn’t that why we became interested in typology in the first place? You can choose to acknowledge that or dismiss it, but what shouldn’t be allowed to happen is the kind of lynching party that immediately sets itself up to assassinate his character.
    It’s playground bullshit.
    Exactly. Especially when you consider that Victor is such an enigma, most of the responses to him don't proceed from understanding him. They ultimately stem from the posters responding.

    You have “no choice”? Really? I don’t think that’s the case. I think you can ask for the derail to be removed and then you can go back to enjoying your thread. Getting your panties in a wad about it is nonsensical.
    99% of the time, the "no choice" plea is putrid BS.

  2. #412
    Senior Member Tiltyred's Avatar
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    Um, he's spoken himself about his mother complex.
    And, I repeat, for me and for others, he's not the slightest enigmatic. He appears to want to be, but he isn't.

  3. #413
    Ginkgo
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tiltyred View Post
    Um, he's spoken himself about his mother complex.
    And, I repeat, for me and for others, he's not the slightest enigmatic. He appears to want to be, but he isn't.
    He's spoken about his fear of women. Upon further inspection, he seems to have fears about a multitude of people all over the board. If you look at it from a broader context, women aren't exactly an exception. If they aren't an exception, then perhaps his views aren't as narrow and pigeon-holing as one might think.

  4. #414
    Senior Member ICUP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ginkgo View Post
    He's spoken about his fear of women. Upon further inspection, he seems to have fears about a multitude of people all over the board. If you look at it from a broader context, women aren't exactly an exception. If they aren't an exception, then perhaps his views aren't as narrow and pigeon-holing as one might think.
    I think you are right, and I don't think he fears women or men in general, but only certain women and men. I think it's more of an innate occurrence, not an environmental circumstance, although environment initially contributed to the end result. I also think he prefers the company of women, and that he is quite androgynous. He seems to actually hate everyone equally, and view people in general as manipulative, not just women. (No, my intent is NOT to assassinate, but to understand. I am guilty of disliking many people myself, for cripes sakes.) Victor has never done anything to me directly to make me dislike him, anymore than ignoring my posts and moving to get me banned, which in this case, I don't find to be a big enough deal to assassinate anyone. I think he's using it as a manipulative tactic, in an attempt to get some women on his side, honestly. I also think he has some real issues with authority. It's as if he is obsessed with obtaining attention from the mods, sometimes.

    In actuality, if he fears women like he says he does, then why is he corresponding with some of them, and using manipulative tactics to try to get them to do what he wants them to do? I think he fears the ones who are aware of his ways, and who show no signs of being victims themselves, irl.
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  5. #415
    meh Salomé's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tiltyred View Post
    --The point remains that he loves to bust your groove.
    If that's the case then I wonder why you love to give him what he wants so much...
    And p.p.s., for pete's sake, who's condemning him for using metaphorical language? It's being incomprehensible that's the problem, and metaphorical language when you refuse to elucidate just gets old after awhile, or it has for me. He never pursues his discussions. Yes, part of the reason is that he's jumped on, but he's jumped on because he often puts them where they are in direct contradiction to a conversation other people happen to be enjoying.
    Jenaphor was one, Randomnity another, there were probably others.
    In one breath you say "he's incomprehensible" (which, btw, isn't a crime afaik) in the next you tell us that you understand him perfectly. Which is it?
    P.P.P.S. The "women mimic arousal" idea is one I've explored pretty extensively. I have a strong liberal arts background, bunches of courses in Women's Studies, have done a good bit of study and writing on the subject of Victorian women, etc., so there's very little he can say on that subject that I don't already know the all the moves to, if that makes sense. It's entirely predictable and no good ever comes of it. If it is enlightening to you, that's good, but it bores me senseless and I find it tedious.
    OK, so then you'll know that what you posted below is a complete mischaracterization of his message, presumably to whip up more murmuring amidst the mob?
    Quote Originally Posted by Tiltyred View Post
    I'm amazed that people think he's so profound. What did he say, in the end? Women should not wear makeup. And the reasoning is pure 18th century, pretty much borrowed from this piece:

    An Act to protect men from being beguiled into marriage by false adornments. All women, of whatever rank, age, profession or degree, whether virgins, maids or widows, that shall, from and after such Act, impose upon, seduce or betray into matrimony, any of His Majesty's subjects, by the scents, paints, cosmetic washes, artificial teeth, false hair, Spanish wool, iron stays, hoops, high-heeled shoes and bolstered hips, shall incur the penalty of the law in force against witchcraft and like misdemeanours and that the marriage upon conviction shall stand null and void.


    But because he phrases this in a way that suits your fancy, you think it's fine. Whereas if he said it in plain English, you'd scratch his eyes out.
    How very disingenuous.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Gosh, the world looks so small from up here on my high horse of menstruation.

  6. #416
    Senior Member Tiltyred's Avatar
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    Yes, but people aren't filling in blanks and making stuff up. He has spoken specifically about his mother complex. Whether women are an exception or not.

  7. #417
    Senior Member Tiltyred's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Salomé View Post
    If that's the case then I wonder why you love to give him what he wants so much...
    Jenaphor was one, Randomnity another, there were probably others.
    In one breath you say "he's incomprehensible" (which, btw, isn't a crime afaik) in the next you tell us that you understand him perfectly. Which is it?

    OK, so then you'll know that what you posted below is a complete mischaracterization of his message, presumably to whip up more murmuring amidst the mob?


    How very disingenuous.
    Uh-huh.

  8. #418
    Senior Member Viridian's Avatar
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    @Marmie Dearest, if I may ask, what are your thoughts on Victor's reaction to the claims made here about him? Do you find them warranted?

  9. #419
    Ginkgo
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tiltyred View Post
    Yes, but people aren't filling in blanks and making stuff up. He has spoken specifically about his mother complex. Whether women are an exception or not.
    If you don't understand his metaphorical language, but still make statements about what he's saying, then yes. You are essentially making assumptions, though not necessarily "making things up" with a deliberate intention to deceive. At the very best, you are unaware of your self-deception.

    Yes he's made allusions to it. However, if you don't understand him, perhaps your understanding of his "mother complex" isn't quite as lucid as you're claiming it is.

  10. #420
    Senior Member Tiltyred's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ginkgo View Post
    If you don't understand his metaphorical language, but still make statements about what he's saying, then yes. You are essentially making assumptions, though not necessarily "making things up" with a deliberate intention to deceive. At the very best, you are unaware of your self-deception.

    Yes he's made allusions to it. However, if you don't understand him, perhaps your understanding of his "mother complex" isn't quite as lucid as you're claiming it is.
    What?

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