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  1. #311
    ThatGirl
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    Our actual self, plus a brand, gives us our ideal self.

    So brands serve the purpose of mediating between our real self and our ideal self.

    So brands diss our real self and valorise our ideal self.

    So brands poison us at our very core, and impose from the outside a phoney ideal self.

    It's true, and we all know it, that beauty comes from within. And we know that the imposition of beauty from the outside is an imposture.
    Only read the OP.

    Victor I agree. I am the type of girl who, "cleans up well". Sometimes it seems like there is a more feral, untamed, and imperfect nature to a more poised, perfected, and marketable image.

    I wonder sometimes, the differences my life would have consisted of, if I say, lived back in the good old days before make up was invented.

    It is no doubt that beauty helps us to project out our ideal self physically, and that the focus of superficiality contributes to the decline of primping other characteristics, like personality. However, what is not being noted here, is that make up is abundant. It is common. And so, what we consider to be an advantage is utilized by so many people, it has just become common. It loses its importance, its effectiveness. And so, we all find ourselves, exactly where we started. Just as people, with funny habits.

  2. #312
    Senior Member ICUP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    And still the attack on my person and my character continue unabated.

    This is not a single attack but a group attack by group bullies aided and abetted by those in authority.

    This continuous, non-stop attack on me has nothing, nothing at all to do with the topic, but are only an open, blatent, sanctioned attack on my character.

    And even the dodgy topic was not written by me but by one of the moderators complicit in the group bullying.

    It is ridiculous for me to ask you to stop your group bullying because it reveals and expresses the nature of MBTI.
    You and I both know that you are guilty of creating chaos, and then turning it around to place the blame on everyone else.
    And you and I both know that you enjoy the results of your actions.
    Let's skip the act......
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  3. #313
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    Angry Blaming the Victim

    Quote Originally Posted by ICUP View Post
    You and I both know that you are guilty of creating chaos, and then turning it around to place the blame on everyone else.
    And you and I both know that you enjoy the results of your actions.
    Let's skip the act......
    This is called, "Blaming the victim". And here it is worse because it is done with the connivence of those in charge.

  4. #314
    Senior Member ICUP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    This is called, "Blaming the victim". And here it is worse because it is done with the connivence of those in charge.
    :yim_rolling_on_the_

    How can you think you are the victim, when you started the whole scene by charging in and disrupting a thread?
    If you feel that you are a victim of character assassination, why don't you take up for yourself instead of calling blame? Explain why the "accusations" you see are untrue.....

    What you claim makes no sense at all.

    If there's anything going on here, it's that you are guilty of "blaming the victim". You are claiming that the mod's and everyone else's emotional and other reactions to your disrespectful behaviors are somehow victimizing you. Is that how you see the world, as a series of victimizing episodes? If you barge into threads time-and-time again, disrupt, and cause chaos, how do you expect people to act? Do you expect everyone to like it?
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  5. #315
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    Quote Originally Posted by ICUP View Post
    :yim_rolling_on_the_

    How can you think you are the victim, when you started the whole scene by charging in and disrupting a thread?
    If you feel that you are a victim of character assassination, why don't you take up for yourself instead of calling blame? Explain why the "accusations" you see are untrue.....

    What you claim makes no sense at all.

    If there's anything going on here, it's that you are guilty of "blaming the victim". You are claiming that the mod's and everyone else's emotional and other reactions to your disrespectful behaviors are somehow victimizing you. Is that how you see the world, as a series of victimizing episodes? If you barge into threads time-and-time again, disrupt, and cause chaos, how do you expect people to act? Do you expect everyone to like it?
    I will never accept group bullying and blaming the victim. I will fight and continue to fight group bullying.

  6. #316
    Senior Member ICUP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    I will never accept group bullying and blaming the victim. I will fight and continue to fight group bullying.
    This schtick is growing old, bro......
    Time for some new material.
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  7. #317
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    This is called, "Blaming the victim". And here it is worse because it is done with the connivence of those in charge.
    I think this is group bullying. I can't believe that the mods are even allowing a "get together and talk shit about Victor" to even go on as a thread.

    I'm a bit astounded, as I've been temp banned for less.

  8. #318
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    Victor's ideas are valid, though. It just takes a minute to get used to how he's putting them across, but there's usually some coherent point that he's getting at. I just think he doesn't care how people react to him; he's got something to say, and he says it wherever and however he wishes.

  9. #319
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmie Dearest View Post
    I think this is group bullying. I can't believe that the mods are even allowing a "get together and talk shit about Victor" to even go on as a thread.

    I'm a bit astounded, as I've been temp banned for less.
    He's guilty of stirring this shit up, repeatedly. And he does nothing to take up for himself, except the same old call "group bullying"...... that pretty much tells me that he doesn't care what's being said. He's more interested in breaking the rules, creating more chaos, and then blaming others for reacting.
    If someone says something about me that I don't agree with, and that happens to me all the time, I tell them why that's not true. I don't call them a bully. If you repeatedly ignore people's thoughts, it seems to anger them. And I think the reason people are talking about him is probably because they can't talk TO him. After he has disrespected them repeatedly by ignoring their thoughts, disrupting their threads, sending them nasty fucking pms, etc., as if they are nothing more than toaster-ovens with mouths, I think they deserve the right to talk about it, and what they think about it. People have fucking feelings. Most of them care about themselves and how they are treated, and their feelings and rights.

    If he can call group-bully on everyone else, I don't see why we can't call things on him too, do you?

    He's good at creating chaos.
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  10. #320
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    Can someone please explain to me what Victor's doing wrong? All he's doing is putting forth his views - which may be written in a way that's an acquired taste, but I happen to find his input pretty interesting and thought-provoking. I wish I knew people like that IRL!

    That said, @Victor - I disagree with your makeup theory. To me, our vision of our ideal self IS our real self. If we're not comfortable as-is, it's probably not right for us. We're not born perfect - some are born with cleft palletes. Some are born the wrong gender. Sure, maybe there's an underlying purpose to these apparent "errors" (sickle cell allele protecting from malaria, useless in America), but they're known as such because in all likelihood, the affected individual will not fulfill said purposes, nor will they want to. So their ideal state is their idealized state. iMakeup is the Goldilocks and the Three Bears "chair" way of "trying on" methods to achieve comfort in our bodies.

    Due to the pleasure and pain senses guiding us humans to what is right for us biologically, I think this can be applicable in the realm of emotion and identity as well.

    So while makeup may not get us entirely there, it helps - and even if it's society dictating these ideals and we mistaken them for our true desires, I think with a strong self-awareness, they can illuminate our true meta-desires, so to speak - our true desire to want to be pleasing to other members of our species (instinct to breed, perhaps). Or other desires that can only (or most directly/easily) be fulfilled by heeding society's commands.

    And I don't think such desires should be blamed for so-called corruption, when desires to fit in are just as valid as desires to actualize our individual identities - we're the ones who attribute value judgments to these desires.

    All in all, I'd say makeup is an INDIRECT route to our innermost desires. We think we really want to be inside a car, but we really want to be where the car takes us.

    If this makes no sense, tough cookies - I haven't really developed my ideas on this to the point of delivering them with precise, concise clarity.
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