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  1. #191
    insert random title here Randomnity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jenaphor View Post
    The Internet is a global tribe where each website is a village. Within the village are the tribal elders who chant their visions of the societal construct that all members of the village must live by. These visions include stories passed down from generation to generation from other wisdom collecting shaman.

    Or some such!
    Quote Originally Posted by Salomé View Post
    Figure and Ground.
    Whoa.....deep.
    -end of thread-

  2. #192
    nee andante bechimo's Avatar
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    What better song and group of Aussie singers to express Victor's words!

    [YOUTUBE="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JHLMGBwAbhA&feature=related"]Words to take your heart away....[/YOUTUBE]

  3. #193
    Senior Member King sns's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jenaphor View Post
    The assumption is that Victor's beliefs are the ultimate in authenticity, whereby authenticity can take many forms and our true selves don't necessarily align with Victor's concept of self-actualisation.

    It's not as if we're solely spirit. Human beings are anchored to the earth by our corporal bodies. So why not accept this aspect and mesh spirit with body? I find most spirituality damaging in their concepts of good/evil, right/wrong since they reject the key element of our corporal humanity. They foster hatred towards our corporal needs. Why is this necessary?
    I'm not sure if you're asking me or him. If you're asking me, I think excessive amounts of things in my life has brought along a lot of unhappiness and feeling trapped. I've observed others' with a lot of money and and things to take care of, I've seen some who don't handle it well, and others' who handle it with ease and appear to thrive in that environment. I'm the former. It's just not the way that I like to live. (I love creature comforts, but not excessive ones for the sake of having them, I only want to love them and use things that increase my happiness- not having money and things for the sake of having money and things.) It brings me away from joy. I'm definitely all about that, and have been thinking about it lately, so that's how I interpreted the OP. I also didn't mean to appear to say anything about other people's beliefs or make any assumptions about ultimate authenticity. I don't make any assumptions about ultimate anything.
    06/13 10:51:03 five sounds: you!!!
    06/13 10:51:08 shortnsweet: no you!!
    06/13 10:51:12 shortnsweet: go do your things and my things too!
    06/13 10:51:23 five sounds: oh hell naw
    06/13 10:51:55 shortnsweet: !!!!
    06/13 10:51:57 shortnsweet: (cries)
    06/13 10:52:19 RiftsWRX: You two are like furbies stuck in a shoe box

    My Nohari
    My Johari
    by sns.

  4. #194
    Senior Member King sns's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Viridian View Post



    I got that too (although I lack the skills to decipher most of his postulates). Reminds me of Adorno, Horkheimer and other Frankfurt School writers's thoughts on the culture industry and capitalism.
    Yeah, Victor could say he is going to the post office and I would think it's a metaphor for something else.
    06/13 10:51:03 five sounds: you!!!
    06/13 10:51:08 shortnsweet: no you!!
    06/13 10:51:12 shortnsweet: go do your things and my things too!
    06/13 10:51:23 five sounds: oh hell naw
    06/13 10:51:55 shortnsweet: !!!!
    06/13 10:51:57 shortnsweet: (cries)
    06/13 10:52:19 RiftsWRX: You two are like furbies stuck in a shoe box

    My Nohari
    My Johari
    by sns.

  5. #195
    nee andante bechimo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shortnsweet View Post
    I'm not sure if you're asking me or him. If you're asking me, I think excessive amounts of things in my life has brought along a lot of unhappiness and feeling trapped. It's just not the way that I like to live. (I love creature comforts, but not excessive ones for the sake of having them, I only want to love them and use things that increase my happiness- not having money and things for the sake of having money and things.) It brings me away from joy. I'm definitely all about that, and have been thinking about it lately, so that's how I interpreted the OP. I also didn't mean to appear to say anything about other people's beliefs or make any assumptions about ultimate authenticity. I don't make any assumptions about ultimate anything.
    Overall, isn't it a matter of balance? And aren't we each already a brand without trying?

    If I take Jenaphor apart, she's got two eyes, a nose and a mouth. If we focus on Jenaphor's nose, do we see her? And yet, shortnsweet has two eyes, a nose and a mouth. Does this mean that Jenaphor and shortnsweet are the same? Or do we zoom in on details and notice that shortnsweet's got blue (?) eyes and Jenaphor has brown eyes?

    The point of the above is that it really depends on how micro or macro you choose to view authenticity through a lens. Maybe materiality doesn't make you happy not because it's materiality but that human nature is rarely satisfied where we become slaves to the "more". The more we have, the more we want. Take a look at Victor. The more attention he gets, the more he craves. The more "spiritual", the more the need to inflict it on others.

  6. #196
    Senior Member King sns's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jenaphor View Post
    Overall, isn't it a matter of balance? And aren't we each already a brand without trying?

    If I take Jenaphor apart, she's got two eyes, a nose and a mouth. If we focus on Jenaphor's nose, do we see her? And yet, shortnsweet has two eyes, a nose and a mouth. Does this mean that Jenaphor and shortnsweet are the same? Or do we zoom in on details and notice that shortnsweet's got blue (?) eyes and Jenaphor has brown eyes?

    The point of the above is that it really depends on how micro or macro you choose to view authenticity through a lens. Maybe materiality doesn't make you happy not because it's materiality but that human nature is rarely satisfied where we become slaves to the "more". The more we have, the more we want. Take a look at Victor. The more attention he gets, the more he craves. The more "spiritual", the more the need to inflict it on others.
    It may be about balance for a lot of people, but for a lot of people it is just about what makes them true to themselves- perhaps that may appear extreme in some cases. My balance is going to be different from your balance. Also, I don't see Victor pressing spirituality on others and enjoying attention, (we are giving him attention regardless.) unless I missed something, I only read the first page. I'm not even positive about what he's saying yet. Are you implying that all or many spiritual people try to press it on others, or just Victor?
    06/13 10:51:03 five sounds: you!!!
    06/13 10:51:08 shortnsweet: no you!!
    06/13 10:51:12 shortnsweet: go do your things and my things too!
    06/13 10:51:23 five sounds: oh hell naw
    06/13 10:51:55 shortnsweet: !!!!
    06/13 10:51:57 shortnsweet: (cries)
    06/13 10:52:19 RiftsWRX: You two are like furbies stuck in a shoe box

    My Nohari
    My Johari
    by sns.

  7. #197
    nee andante bechimo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shortnsweet View Post
    It may be about balance for a lot of people, but for a lot of people it is just about what makes them true to themselves- perhaps that may appear extreme in some cases. My balance is going to be different from your balance. Also, I don't see Victor pressing spirituality on others and enjoying attention, (we are giving him attention regardless.) unless I missed something, I only read the first page. I'm not even positive about what he's saying yet. Are you implying that all or many spiritual people try to press it on others, or just Victor?
    I don't disagree that we each will have different balances. But when it slants completely in the direction of purported spirituality, whereby messianic complex types feel they need to preach to save the world from the corruption of materiality, it gets old fast.

  8. #198
    Dreaming the life onemoretime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ginkgo View Post
    In the case that one is unable to internalize their sense of love, I would prefer that they find it by measuring up to an external standard if only briefly, until they find the means to grow in a different direction.
    I disagree, but that's OK. I'd be concerned with codependency based on that approach.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jenaphor View Post
    Victor's always moralising. And you conveniently missed the depth of insight.
    Is that so.

    Have you never had fun in your life that spurts of quick pleasures like eating a piece of dark chocolate, hugging a loved one, reading a good book, all give you pleasure? It's like suggesting that life must be so serious all the time where a beautiful summer day like today should include wearing a hairshirt, to recant the pleasure of sunshine and warmth.
    The joy comes from within, and spreads without. That's the point.

    Wearing makeup isn't all that deep. Many women also enjoy wearing fuck-me shoes!
    Yes, and you know why.

    Quote Originally Posted by redcheerio View Post
    Sure, but it isn't very realistic to post an opinion on a forum and then feel bullied when people challenge that opinion. In fact, I'd say that strategy is destined for failure.
    Who defines success and failure here?

    Quote Originally Posted by ICUP View Post
    Agreed. It IS technically, bullying. I suppose it's one thing to enforce the rules or disagree, another to bully, and to change one's behaviors towards a person because they are breaking the rules or disagreeing with me. Of course, I don't know the history, either. I can be just as prone to bully as the next guy, however, but generally it's because they did it first. I like to give people a taste of their own medicine. Alot of times, the ones prone to putting others down or creating a little clique can be the most vulnerable.
    Yeah, it's nice to play Nemesis every once in a while, isn't it? Except, problem is, we're not gods.

    I see this perspective. Who am I to determine who someone else should be? Am I one to decide that Victor would be happier if he were different? I think I make suggestions based on what I think would make someone happier, but I am not them. As long as he goes by the rules, I suppose he is free to believe what he wants and post as he wishes to.
    ---------------
    It's just another instance of hypocrisy that I see here and abroad. People say they stand for something, but in evidence, they don't even know what it means to stand for what they say they do. People are generally followers socially, which is one thing I can say, Victor, is not.
    Well said.

  9. #199
    Emerging Tallulah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jenaphor View Post
    Even better is that within the Karpman Drama Triangle model, Victor holds the most power as victim. In not posting, he allows his rescuers to defend him from the persecutors. Not one finger lifted. Fucking genius!
    This. Hence we see the same pattern with no deviation, every time he starts a thread. Playing the victim allows him to maintain the role of misunderstood underdog genius. I think he gets exactly the kind of reaction he wants. And it's effective. Probably 17 pages out of this 20 page thread are devoted to discussing the Victor Mystique rather than the old "makeup mimics arousal" chestnut. He doesn't even have to have new material to maintain rockstar status. Just the greatest hits. Love him or hate him, we still talk about him.
    Something Witty

  10. #200
    Senior Member ICUP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by onemoretime View Post
    Yeah, it's nice to play Nemesis every once in a while, isn't it? Except, problem is, we're not gods.
    Nah, that's not the case with me.....

    My doing so is more based on 1) taking care of myself, and 2) an eye for an eye.
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