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  1. #151
    nee andante bechimo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nebbykoo View Post
    Yes, I meant misunderstood. Thanks for pointing that out.
    Yes, that is how he likes to express himself, or he would do it another way.
    And yes, he is more than aware enough to know he will be misunderstood, if by no other means than the long track record of it happening here.
    I agree, if you aren't looking for concrete answers, his style is not confusing. I enjoy it.
    And my original question still stands: why invite misunderstanding and ridicule?
    Because he want to enlighten.
    He spoke of the 'true self' and the 'ideal self'.
    ideal self = ego consciousness/vanity/'I': makeup-as-metaphor, cover over true self
    true self = soul/humility/'we': no need for makeup, no need to beautify.
    I think he is often vague, partially because he enjoys the confusion that ensues. It amuses his ego to be so inscrutable.
    The inscrutability is itself a form of makeup/covering. It makes people wonder whether or not they understand something. Clarity allows them to decide if they believe it.
    Good synopsis. It is a form of mental masturbation for him to be ambiguous.

  2. #152
    Senior Member King sns's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nebbykoo View Post
    Yes, I meant misunderstood. Thanks for pointing that out.
    Yes, that is how he likes to express himself, or he would do it another way.
    And yes, he is more than aware enough to know he will be misunderstood, if by no other means than the long track record of it happening here.
    I agree, if you aren't looking for concrete answers, his style is not confusing. I enjoy it.
    And my original question still stands: why invite misunderstanding and ridicule?
    Because he want to enlighten.
    He spoke of the 'true self' and the 'ideal self'.
    ideal self = ego consciousness/vanity/'I': makeup-as-metaphor, cover over true self
    true self = soul/humility/'we': no need for makeup, no need to beautify.
    I think he is often vague, partially because he enjoys the confusion that ensues. It amuses his ego to be so inscrutable.
    The inscrutability is itself a form of makeup/covering. It makes people wonder whether or not they understand something. Clarity allows them to decide if they believe it.
    Yeah, I agree. I am inclined to overlook the word makeup and focus more on the word brands. I think that maybe he is talking about "things" like the newest vacuum cleaner or dryer ball or jetski- things that are meant to make you look better but when abused, take you much farther away from your true self and make you guarded, unable to have a good relationship, and unhappy. A coverup to your supposed ugly self, just like makeup.

    (For post insurance purposes, I'm not talking about the three items listed above, I'm talking about the Jonses mentality.)

    I'm not sure if that's what he meant by makeup, but that's what it made me think about when I read it. Of course, I'm inclined to take all of Victor's posts figuratively out of habit.
    06/13 10:51:03 five sounds: you!!!
    06/13 10:51:08 shortnsweet: no you!!
    06/13 10:51:12 shortnsweet: go do your things and my things too!
    06/13 10:51:23 five sounds: oh hell naw
    06/13 10:51:55 shortnsweet: !!!!
    06/13 10:51:57 shortnsweet: (cries)
    06/13 10:52:19 RiftsWRX: You two are like furbies stuck in a shoe box

    My Nohari
    My Johari
    by sns.

  3. #153
    Senior Member Jaguar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tiltyred View Post
    It was not unfair or unkind. It was truthful. HE IS A TROLL. Why would you do it repeatedly and repeatedly complain that you are being yelled at when you do it? Again, who's the bully??
    Victor was posting that Carl Jung sexually abused his patients. I got tired of the nonsense and told him to post the evidence. He wouldn't do it, because he couldn't do it.

    So rather than say yes, Jag, I'm intentionally posting falsehoods about Jung to annoy you, this is what he posted - his alleged "purpose" for being here at TypeC.

    What follows is Victor's comments and ragashree's response:

    Quote Originally Posted by Victor
    My purpose here is plain.

    My purpose is to create cognitive dissonance.

    Jung is held is high regard, so I hold him in disregard.

    I am counterposing one emotion, regard, with another emotion, disregard.

    I am contrasting one picture of Jung with another picture of Jung. This creates an interference pattern called cognitive dissonance.

    I recognise that cognitive dissonance is emotionally painful. And I also recognise that cognitive dissonance is a sign that learning is taking place.

    So my plain and oft stated purpose is to create cognitive dissonance to facilitate learning.
    Quote Originally Posted by ragashree
    Well, Victor, with admissions like that you don't need anyone else to comment on your credibility, do you? Shorn of the obligatory self-justification, which rests entirely on your self-proclaimed assumption of superior wisdom, this is merely to say that you are perpetuating deliberate falsehoods in order to take a contrarian position, in the hope that doing so will upset someone.

    This happens to fit most people's definition of trolling rather well, don'cha think?

  4. #154
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    I used to write stuff that was intentionally obscure when I was a teenager because I wanted someone to understand ME, like to really get it, and I thought that spelling things out actually took away from the real meaning.

    Just consider the option that Victor does this kind of language either because he wants someone to really understand HIM as an individual (he doesn't want to be forced to speak like everyone else) or because he feels like the REAL MEANING would actually be stripped from it if he spoke in plainer language...or both. Those are either Fi, Ni, or Fi/Ni motives, I think.

    Fi/Ni loop also explains his insular world.

    I remember one time we had to write our own monologues for one of my drama classes, and I wrote some poem and read it as my monologue, and so help me god my drama teacher (not the other students) looked at me in outright confusion and said, "I'm going to be perfectly honest, I didn't understand that." And I was sincerely hoping that someone would have, especially the teacher.

    That's kind of how Victor writes, in images and symbols and things which have profound meaning...to him.

    But now I'm afraid that by talking about him, he's going to be offended, so now I'll stop.

  5. #155
    nee andante bechimo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shortnsweet View Post
    Yeah, I agree. I am inclined to overlook the word makeup and focus more on the word brands. I think that maybe he is talking about "things" like the newest vacuum cleaner or dryer ball or jetski- things that are meant to make you look better but when abused, take you much farther away from your true self and make you guarded, unable to have a good relationship, and unhappy. A coverup to your supposed ugly self, just like makeup.

    (For post insurance purposes, I'm not talking about the three items listed above, I'm talking about the Jonses mentality.)

    I'm not sure if that's what he meant by makeup, but that's what it made me think about when I read it. Of course, I'm inclined to take all of Victor's posts figuratively out of habit.
    The assumption is that Victor's beliefs are the ultimate in authenticity, whereby authenticity can take many forms and our true selves don't necessarily align with Victor's concept of self-actualisation.

    It's not as if we're solely spirit. Human beings are anchored to the earth by our corporal bodies. So why not accept this aspect and mesh spirit with body? I find most spirituality damaging in their concepts of good/evil, right/wrong since they reject the key element of our corporal humanity. They foster hatred towards our corporal needs. Why is this necessary?

  6. #156
    morose bourgeoisie
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    I hope V never changes. And I hope he writes that novel/epic poem/treatise. I adore his mythopoetic nature.

  7. #157
    Senior Member Tiltyred's Avatar
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    I'm amazed that people think he's so profound. What did he say, in the end? Women should not wear makeup. And the reasoning is pure 18th century, pretty much borrowed from this piece:

    An Act to protect men from being beguiled into marriage by false adornments. All women, of whatever rank, age, profession or degree, whether virgins, maids or widows, that shall, from and after such Act, impose upon, seduce or betray into matrimony, any of His Majesty's subjects, by the scents, paints, cosmetic washes, artificial teeth, false hair, Spanish wool, iron stays, hoops, high-heeled shoes and bolstered hips, shall incur the penalty of the law in force against witchcraft and like misdemeanours and that the marriage upon conviction shall stand null and void.


    But because he phrases this in a way that suits your fancy, you think it's fine. Whereas if he said it in plain English, you'd scratch his eyes out.

  8. #158
    nee andante bechimo's Avatar
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  9. #159
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tiltyred View Post
    I'm amazed that people think he's so profound. What did he say, in the end? Women should not wear makeup. And the reasoning is pure 18th century, pretty much borrowed from this piece:

    An Act to protect men from being beguiled into marriage by false adornments. All women, of whatever rank, age, profession or degree, whether virgins, maids or widows, that shall, from and after such Act, impose upon, seduce or betray into matrimony, any of His Majesty's subjects, by the scents, paints, cosmetic washes, artificial teeth, false hair, Spanish wool, iron stays, hoops, high-heeled shoes and bolstered hips, shall incur the penalty of the law in force against witchcraft and like misdemeanours and that the marriage upon conviction shall stand null and void.


    But because he phrases this in a way that suits your fancy, you think it's fine. Whereas if he said it in plain English, you'd scratch his eyes out.
    I already said multiple times that Victor seems to have fear and/or anger towards women. I knew this one day when he started talking about Sylvia Plath and compared me to her, and from a very strange angle, which made me angry.

    However, his point is more than simply women shouldn't wear make-up...all the stuff he said about brands, et al, is exactly what nebbykoo and shortnsweet said...it's all, again, part of his mission for authenticity.

  10. #160
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jenaphor View Post
    The assumption is that Victor's beliefs are the ultimate in authenticity, whereby authenticity can take many forms and our true selves don't necessarily align with Victor's concept of self-actualisation.

    It's not as if we're solely spirit. Human beings are anchored to the earth by our corporal bodies. So why not accept this aspect and mesh spirit with body? I find most spirituality damaging in their concepts of good/evil, right/wrong since they reject the key element of our corporal humanity. They foster hatred towards our corporal needs. Why is this necessary?
    Because he's in an Fi/Ni loop tenaciously rejecting his Se. That's the typology explanation.

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