Victor's thoughts on makeup

[Tiltyred]

I have blown him off to date. I was ok with blowing him off until he sent me a pm I didn't appreciate and immediately thereafter sailed into a discussion among the women with misogyny.

Gingko! I didn't see you admonishing Halla to be nice when he breathed atomic blasts! You applauded! What's up with that?

 

[ICUP]

he sent me a pm I didn't appreciate and immediately thereafter sailed into a discussion among the women with misogyny.

Neither of these things are very nice. There are no excuses for unbridled misogyny. There is always therapy, if he wants to change it. Instead, he appears to be enjoying it, and then telling some sob story about why.

One thing I do applaud you for is for taking it seriously. The only way to figure things out sometimes, and to improve your life, is to take things that other people think are common and/or minor, and make them not-so-minor. Sometimes it's the small details that can lead you to the bigger answers in life.

 

[Ginkgo]

Gingko! I didn't see you admonishing Halla to be nice when he breathed atomic blasts! You applauded! What's up with that?

Oh yeah, thanks for reminding me.

Encore!!! Encore!!

 

[Thalassa]

I have a present for all of the good people in this thread.

 

[redcheerio]

I played sport at school but when I left school I discovered other things. In particular I discovered the inner life and everything that goes with it....

The thread that [MENTION=195]Jaguar[/MENTION] linked, especially the above quote, appears to support the Fi-Ni loop theory, as he shows evidence of rejecting Se in favor of Ni.

http://www.typologycentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=36649&p=1378822&viewfull=1#post1378822

Tertiary Ni would explain a lot, especially given the info he shared this morning in another thread.

 

[ICUP]

He's untypeable. That's as far as I will ever go on that matter lol....... Too much entertainment to be had.

 

[Ginkgo]

The most attention the philosophy section has garnered in ages.

 

[Tiltyred]

http://greenlightwiki.com/lenore-exegesis/Tertiary_Temptation

Is that a good description?

 

[Thalassa]

http://greenlightwiki.com/lenore-exegesis/Tertiary_Temptation

Is that a good description?

lol this sounds like me ""I can't possibly go along with this, 'cuz it's all a lie. It's all a set-up by the Man. I'd just be serving his interests and not my own. I'm not gonna be suckered by all this self-serving bull. No way, man, I gotta go my own way" (of course I relate to tert Te as well)

but the rest of it very much sounds like Victor. Like, to an extreme. ""Why should I imitate the cool people? Despite their shiny clothes and social connections, they are still as vulnerable as anyone else" and ""I can't possibly go along with this, because it holds no meaning; it's brutal and senseless, the result of mindless animals serving their base instincts. There are so many ways to look at this, so many ways to alter its meaning - I can't risk subjecting myself to the elements so openly. I'd rather conceive my own reality, on my own terms."

In his case it would appear he's almost CONSTANTLY relying on Ni over Se, not just in spurts.

 

[redcheerio]

http://greenlightwiki.com/lenore-exegesis/Tertiary_Temptation

Is that a good description?

Tertiary Ni (ISxP): "I can't possibly go along with this, because it holds no meaning; it's brutal and senseless, the result of mindless animals serving their base instincts. There are so many ways to look at this, so many ways to alter its meaning - I can't risk subjecting myself to the elements so openly. I'd rather conceive my own reality, on my own terms." The Secondary Function (Se) would say: "This thing's bigger than you. Better just go with the flow, do what you can, trust your instincts to deal with what's right here and now."

Wow, yes. Good find, thanks!

(Now I'm also looking at their descriptions for tert Fe and tert Ne to see if I can find anything relevant to my incompatibility with a couple of unhealthy ESFJs in my past....)

 

[Tiltyred]

My pleasure! Good analysis!

 

[redcheerio]

My pleasure! Good analysis!

Thanks! I can't take credit, though. Marm brought it up, and gave credit where credit was due, which I later found here (assuming this is the same guy Marm was talking about):

ISFP. Someone said this and it makes the most sense.. He is stuck in an Fi Ni loop.

Poor guy

Although actually, looks like he also got it from someone before him....

 

[Thalassa]

Thanks! I can't take credit, though. Marm brought it up, and gave credit where credit was due, which I later found here (assuming this is the same guy Marm was talking about):



Although actually, looks like he also got it from someone before him....

Simulated World loves Lenore Thomson and is no longer with us here at Type C, but his Jungian insight can still be found on PersN. He's the one who I first saw suggest the Fi/Ni loop for Vic, and I realize now that I grasp function theory better just how well ISFP fits than INFP for him.

Sim also spotted JTG's Si/Fi loop FROM A DISTANCE, even while I from close up was like "why does he haz soooo much Fi? Evil ISFP? But no that's not right? BUT WHY SO MUCH FI???" (depressed ISTJ).

SW also was very insistent that I had Fi/Te rather than Fe/Ti, and when I finally realized how unbelievably true that was after much harassment, I understood that function theory was worth learning.

 

[rav3n]

Just thinking about his post in that other thread from this morning.

Since his mother withdraws her love and approval when he's not doing what she tells him to do, I wonder if there's a repetitive pattern where he has to act up harshly to regain her attention? Then she gives him hell but stops ignoring him when he's repentant.

 

[Tiltyred]

Good job, Marm!

 

[Ginkgo]

Thanks! I can't take credit, though. Marm brought it up, and gave credit where credit was due, which I later found here (assuming this is the same guy Marm was talking about):



Although actually, looks like he also got it from someone before him....

I believe the first person to coin that term was an old member named simulatedworld, and it was probably derived from Lenore Thomson's theory on Tertiary Temptation. It's bullshit that relying on the dominant and tertiary hampers your ability to change your attitude or learn new things. If our cognitive functions were the only forces that determine attitudes and cognition, then that would be true. But they are not.

 

[redcheerio]

I believe the first person to coin that term was an old member named simulatedworld, and it was probably derived from Lenore Thomson's theory on Tertiary Temptation. It's bullshit that relying on the dominant and tertiary hampers your ability to change your attitude or learn new things. If our cognitive functions were the only forces that determine attitudes and cognition, then that would be true. But they are not.

Of course there is still choice to change it. The theory merely explains the person's current thought process. It's more difficult for them to change if they don't recognize it themselves, though. Edit: Especially if they are particularly enamored with their new thought process.

 

[Ginkgo]

Of course there is still choice to change it. The theory merely explains the person's current thought process. It's more difficult for them to change if they don't recognize it themselves, though.

I agree that recognizing your attributes is a path to change. Yeah, you can change it, but then it's not the same theory.

EDIT: In fact, sim had the gall to claim that "tert loops" explain away personality disorders and vice versa. What a terrible abuse. Sure, Jung made many statements about the negative aspects of functions and how they may manifest themselves in terrible ways when people aren't aware of their own "venoms", but just being aware doesn't mean that you choose to dig deep and find an alternative to your old habits. There are people out there who are knowingly dysfunctional, openly pathological, and either use it as an excuse to refuse changing for the better (a sort of outwardly directed denial), or choose to revel in their shadows.

Plus, a preference in functions doesn't necessitate a personality disorder. Personalities are composed of more than just functions.

 

[Thalassa]

Of course there is still choice to change it. The theory merely explains the person's current thought process. It's more difficult for them to change if they don't recognize it themselves, though.

Yeah you can get caught in it, and it's harder for some people than others to snap out of it, depending on life experiences and other conditions (depression, abuse, neuroses, personality disorders) BUT YOU CAN SNAP OUT OF IT.

I've watched the ISTJ come back into his Te, so it's not like it TRAPS YOU FOR LIFE.

The smartest thing to do is recognize it and work on it, but some people can't or won't.

 

[redcheerio]

I agree that recognizing your attributes is a path to change. Yeah, you can change it, but then it's not the same theory.

No, the theory remains the same. It's just a description of something some people get caught in sometimes. Doesn't mean they can't work their way out of it if they want to.