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  • yes

    27 81.82%
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  1. #31
    pathwise dependent FDG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThatGirl View Post
    I think it depends on the effort put forth by the talented person. Hard work can mimic talent as far as results go. If the talented person puts forth an equal amount of effort to secure the same result though, talent wins. Mostly because talent lightens work, and allows someone to achieve the same results with less effort. So while the talented person is only expending little energy, the untalented much more. If equally matched, the talented person will win due to longevity, being more fresh and prepared for times when the situation calls for the above and beyond. Which will be a taxing demise for the untalented.
    Yep. That's exactly my experience, having been both the more talented but less hard working person in some environments, and more hard working but less talented in others.

    age and treachery will always overcome youth and skill
    That's generally not true if you check out peak human performance (say, sport starts and extremely high level academics).
    ENTj 7-3-8 sx/sp

  2. #32
    Listening Oaky's Avatar
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    Talent is simply the level of quickness you are able to adhere to the particular skill. If someone with talent and a hard worker work an equal amount the one with talent will most surely surpass the other.

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThatGirl View Post
    Well hello.

    I think in that case time would contribute to a reduction in talent, as the physical body is subject to depreciation. This would once again even the playing field.
    So in other words, if all things are equal, and the playing field is completely level, there is no advantage to be had. It's just that usually, hard work gives you advantages that raw talent on its own can't; once the advantages on both sides are removed, there is, of course, no difference between the two.

    Quote Originally Posted by uncommonentity
    There's no such thing as talent since everything is learnt. Hard work wins by default.
    I completely disagree with this statement (except your conclusion), and I'll tell you why. Some people have a natural affinity for developing skills that outstrips the norm; this is really what we call natural talent. The question here is, is having this natural affinity enough to make up for a lack of hard work and experience, and the answer, as we all know, is no.

    Quote Originally Posted by FDG
    That's generally not true if you check out peak human performance (say, sport starts and extremely high level academics).
    You're right, though the reason for that (in the sports case) is because there is a higher dependency on having a physical advantage over your opponent; at that point, the talent becomes the deciding factor since they are both working equally hard, and will have similar levels of experience. If your experience cannot make up for your physical disadvantage, then it won't do you much good; however, if the person with the raw talent does not also have the experience to back it up, then that talent becomes a moot point. As for academics, it has more to do with a general slowdown of the brain than anything else (actually, I'm fairly sure I read somewhere that the brain doesn't actually slow down as you age; can't quite remember where it was, though.); if the only resource you have at your disposal is weakening, then naturally you will be at a disadvantage. In sports, you have the advantage of using both your body and brain as a resource; if your body is too weak, though, then your experience will count for less and less.

  4. #34
    Probably Most Brilliant Craft's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oakysage View Post
    Talent is simply the level of quickness you are able to adhere to the particular skill. If someone with talent and a hard worker work an equal amount the one with talent will most surely surpass the other.
    "work an equal amount" doesn't showcase the factor of hardwork.

    Hardwork is application and talent is internal. As a lazy INTP, I find it easy to accept the importance hardwork.

  5. #35
    Senior Member redcheerio's Avatar
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    Also keep in mind the importance social and political skills. Someone who is both top talent and the hardest working can be taken down if a higher up doesn't like them. So when people like that refuse to learn social and political skills, their only hope of success is to start their own venture, but even then, they will lose all their best talented people if they don't learn some downward direction social skills, just as they won't move up in a larger company without upward direction and teamworking social skills.

    Sometimes talent requires additional social skills to compensate for resentment from less talented. Being unintimidating can have the opposite effect and bring the political tide in your favor. Depends on the context.

    I started a Toastmasters group from scratch at my last office and served as president, and our club did exceptionally well for a new club, reaching Distinguished Club status during our second year.

    This is noteworthy as I have almost zero natural talent in public speaking. I found it hilarious and eye-opening when one guy told me that one of the reasons he liked our group so much and me as president was because I was so unintimidating as a speaker.


    I have had much less political success in areas where I am significantly more talented than I am in public speaking.

    In opposition to the forces of talent and hard work, political forces favor the likeable and the average. Case in point: GW Bush.

    There are exceptions, also, but those forces exist.

    The ideal is to be talented, hardworking, likeable, and unintimidating (at least on the way up). Edit: On second thought, maybe only unintimidating to higher-ups, as demonstrated by XNTJs? Not sure.

    Having said all that, I also agree that for the most part, only a threshold level of talent or intelligence is required in most cases. Additional talent is only useful at the leading edge, and only in limited amounts.

  6. #36
    Listening Oaky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Craft View Post
    "work an equal amount" doesn't showcase the factor of hardwork.

    Hardwork is application and talent is internal. As a lazy INTP, I find it easy to accept the importance hardwork.
    Hard work applies to great effort given with the amount of work one does. If effort is equal for two individuals, the one with greater talent will surpass the other assuming they start out with equality in the levels within the skill.

  7. #37
    Probably Most Brilliant Craft's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oakysage View Post
    Hard work applies to great effort given with the amount of work one does. If effort is equal for two individuals, the one with greater talent will surpass the other assuming they start out with equality in the levels within the skill.
    *If effort is equal.

    Effort affects work by a larger margin than skill. Having effort but no skill produces something(experience primarily), while having skill and no effort produces nothing.

    "Guess and Check" is an example of effort-based activity. Evolution is also an example.

  8. #38
    Listening Oaky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Craft View Post
    *If effort is equal.

    Effort affects work by a larger margin than skill. Having effort but no skill produces something(experience primarily), while having skill and no effort produces nothing.

    "Guess and Check" is an example of effort-based activity. Evolution is also an example.
    This does not go against what I've said.

  9. #39
    Resident Snot-Nose GZA's Avatar
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    There is no such thing as talent without hard work. Talent is something that is created throw dedication and effort and hard work. I wasn't talented at anything until I worked hard at it. When I worked hard at the things I'm talented at, I ended up going further than most of my peers. My natural inclination for these things would be meaningless without my hard work, and my hard work has been fueled by my love for what I'm doing and the connection I have with it that I suppose is the "talent" aspect. If someone with no talent works at something, they will become good at it, but without the connection/understanding and love that talented people have with their talents, they just won't achieve the same things and probably won't be able to work as hard without burning out or whatever.

  10. #40
    Probably Most Brilliant Craft's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oakysage View Post
    This does not go against what I've said.
    Just making sure. I don't really get why anyone would mention the importance of talent. A bit too obvious for many.

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