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  1. #1
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    Default End Times: Teachings Which Are Not Biblical

    I do not identify as Christian, but I did at one time as I grew up in a Christian household and I have read the Bible.

    One thing that I know for sure is that the Bible says there will be tribulations and signs, but that NO ONE will know when the end of the world is really here.

    So you'll pardon me if I utterly disregard the beliefs of people who run around shrieking that we're living "in end times."

    That is a cult belief. It is neither Biblical nor scientific.

    If you want to say, "the world is in chaos because people are harming their environment." Then fine, very well, people very well could destroy themselves (though the earth will surely still be here without us) by wrecking the environment at the pace that they are.

    But that belief has everything to do with science and nothing to do with religion.

  2. #2
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
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    The Church didn't pay much attention to end times prophecy until after the reformation - and more specifically, after the reformation further spread into a second lineage of more independent, colonial Protestant offshoots (the original Protestants were mostly Calvinist and Lutheran in nature..and in some ways, closer to their Catholic and Orthodox counterparts). The biggest debt modern end times prophecy owes is to John Darby, whose teachings didn't arrive until well into the 1800s. Basically, it's a relatively modern fascination in the church.

    Little history lesson out of the way, before that, the church varied from not commenting at all or having a loosely based end times school of thought that's now called "Preterism". Preterism is, more or less, the "historical" position of the church, be it the Old Protestants, Orthodox, or Roman Catholic. In Preterism, it's believed that we are living in the so called "Millenium" mentioned in the book of Revelation, and that most of the tribulations are actually in the past. In Revelation, it is said that Jesus binds the powers of darkness from being truly harmful for a time, and that there is a "thousand years" of his rule on earth. It never says it's a millenium of peace, prosperity, or a complete vanquishing of evil.. it just says that Satan is bound up from causing harm, and that Christ reigns with his people on earth. The historical interpretation of this is that is none other than the Age of the Church itself, and that most of the so called "End Times" story has already been told.. that Christ is ruling on earth for a thousand years vicariously through his church.

    Second, the Bible never actually says it's the "End Times" anyways. It says Christ's life is an end of an "Age" (greek: "aeon"), not Time itself.

    Even further to the point, Christ says time and time and time again that most of the destruction and plagues mentioned in the New Testament will "happen soon", and that "some of this generation" will see it. He literally says that people standing with him will see things come to pass. Either he was crazy or he actually meant it. The Church always interpreted the whole thing as the tribulations it went through in the first century. Among other things. It seems more logical that way too, even if you wish to not ascribe any mystical meaning to it. I mean, if you actually study early European and Middle Eastern history, it sounds like hell on earth. Especially under the reign of the Nero. A lot of scholars proposition that Revelation was written during this time, and there's a lot of evidence within that supports that. Most especially, the number of the beast: 666. Although the writer of revelation was writing in Greek, it would seem that "666" was code for "Nero Caesar". I'm already making this long as it is, but you can Google the details. It is not likely that it has anything to do with some New World Order run by evil commies flying around in Locust Shaped Helicopters controlling us with our "Master Card" account numbers, all in cahoots with the Satan and the Pope and god knows who else. It's more likely that the writer was encrypting the name numerically, and that people who think any other way are batshit, retarded rednecks who need a history lesson on what real apocalyptic persecution looks like.

    Hmm.. There's so much else to say actually, but I'll spare you.

  3. #3
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    Great post! Thanks for this. What you're saying is extremely plausible from either a mystical or historical perspective, however one chooses to look at it.

    I simply cannot even fathom how anyone who knows anything about history (and I'm not even one of those people like Peguy who walk around naming off dates and fact after fact, I have more of a holistic overview with a more humanistic attachment to certain eras) could believe this tripe. I can understand if you're extremely ignorant and uneducated, or perhaps a child or teenager. But if you know anything at all about natural disasters, plagues, and all of the various calamities that have occurred to humanity over written history, our current age actually seems like a cake walk in comparison, if only we didn't have the environmental issues.

    It's just...silly. It's like living in a box and thinking that if water spills in your box, that is the first time water has ever spilled; water has never spilled outside of your box or in anyone else's box.

  4. #4
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    basiclly so klike i thionk nbod cares about prophetics un;ess it has somnetghing subsytyatiakl to support it wuith desperrate peopele take for polar shift whisch iinvalid and si.lly

  5. #5
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
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    Btw, if I sound venomous at the end of my post, it's because I am. If there's one group of Christians (or religious people) I actually hate, it's end times people. I don't like fearmongers of all types really.. they generally prey on people, and have no historical perspective themselves.

    For example, one often repeated modern "sign" of the end times persecution is how suppressed the religious voice is, and how we've all forsaken goodness. Like not being allowed public prayer in school, for example.

    In the bigger picture, we're all lucky we even have "school" to begin with. A hundred years ago, public school was somewhat rare even in prosperous nations. Just that small step back would be more "apocalyptic" in my point of view. But humanity is ever progressing, and now we have school on a wider scale. And all they can see is how they can't pray in front of everyone. Give me a break. That's hardly the End Times.

    And this is just one thing.. everything they dwell on is always rooted in ignorance, lack of historical perpsective, and unappreciation for the true goal of humanity: progress. They always see a blight coming from the smallest things.. and scare kids and others into thinking that the world truly needs to end.. and that God means to do so. They and their petty god can kiss my ass. Neither has any ultimate goals for anyone or anything except helplessness and destruction.

  6. #6
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    Yeah, I know what you mean. I feel bad because I sound shitty a lot when I talk about organized religion or Christianity...but what I mean is that I don't like the weird, ignorant, cultish behavior of the sorts of people who scare-monger with "END TIMES!" and bomb abortion clinics and picket against gays and literally keep their children from learning science and going to university...it's just MIND BOGGLING to me. All of that stuff. Ugh.

    I sound really nasty when I talk about that stuff too, then I feel guilty for offending the sane Christians.

  7. #7
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
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    The ironic thing... and part of my point above.. is that those early Christians painted Jesus and/or their movement as one of progression too. Not one of fear. The whole idea of Jesus ushering in a "new aeon" is no small matter. It's a much different concept than "end times". They painted him as a man of insignificant means who could topple the old gods and was worthy of being called a king more than Caesar himself. It was progressive enough that everyone in their time feared it and killed them wholesale. Pagans and Romans alike didn't like where they were taking things. Romans actually labeled them atheists.

    "Progression" is why they even wrote the book of Revelation itself. The opening and closing sections was all meant to give hope to his followers. Not assurance of destruction. They believed that his and their blood would afford something more grand in the future. In some ways, they might have been right too. For all the faults of the church throughout history, these first christians made a mark in many good ways. It was both a social and spiritual movement.. but the social side is sometimes lost these days.

  8. #8
    likes this gromit's Avatar
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    Usually things aren't as bad as people make them out to be. A lot of the time we/people just want something to freak out about.
    Your kisses, sweeter than honey. But guess what, so is my money.

  9. #9
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    I imagine they only pay attention to any aspect of end time beliefs when trying to convert.

  10. #10
    Senior Member Xyk's Avatar
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    Is this not obvious to most people? According to INTP descriptions, things that are blatantly obvious to us may not be so to others. Is it not painfully obvious that the end times are not immediately upon us? Why do we even have a thread for this?
    MBTI: INTP (PNIT if you wanna put it in order of strength.)
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    Stereotype: Geek/Hippie

    Also, credit for my new avatar goes to this person. I found it on the google.

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