User Tag List

First 111920212223 Last

Results 201 to 210 of 228

  1. #201
    Senior Member Nicodemus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Posts
    9,130

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Marmie Dearest View Post
    That's interesting that men are more inclined to read non-fiction than women. Very interesting!
    Men need knowledge of the real world in order to hunt animals and collect crops. Women watch shadows on cave walls and make up stories to entertain children. Uga-uga.

  2. #202
    Senior Member jimrckhnd's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    MBTI
    INTP
    Posts
    455

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Marmie Dearest View Post
    Intellectualism can become pretentious after a certain point. A person can like both. I wonder sometimes if NTs are just naturally more inclined to read academic stuff.
    I read very little non-fiction - almost none. Which does not mean I don't enjoy lighter reading - I'm a big fan of good travel writing.
    Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups

  3. #203
    Senior Member Viridian's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    MBTI
    IsFJ
    Posts
    3,088

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Nicodemus View Post
    Distaste for the banal comes from growing accustomed to the exquisite. Reading only complex literature, you are easily bored with the simple and obvious patterns of pulp fiction, but it also spoils the fun you might otherwise have drawn from it.
    I don't dislike mainstream stuff, I just feel kinda guilty about liking it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nicodemus View Post
    If you really think it important, you can train your brain into preferring Stockhausen to Ace of Base. Of course, that alone would not make you any more intellectual.
    What I meant is that, by being in an university whose staff emphasizes critical thinking and subversion of the status quo, I'm already in a league of sorts, so I need to meet their standards... Otherwise, I kinda feel like I'd be considered naive or even reactionary...

    Does that make any sense to you? Am I making too much of a big deal out of this?

  4. #204
    Senior Member Nicodemus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Posts
    9,130

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Viridian View Post
    I don't dislike mainstream stuff, I just feel kinda guilty about liking it.
    I got that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Viridian View Post
    What I meant is that, by being in an university whose staff emphasizes critical thinking and subversion of the status quo, I'm already in a league of sorts, so I need to meet their standards... Otherwise, I kinda feel like I'd be considered naive or even reactionary...

    Does that make any sense to you? Am I making too much of a big deal out of this?
    Personally, I think you try to fit in the wrong way - one might call it Fe fail. If I met you and learned about your taste in mainstream art, I would probably consider you inexperienced in art. That does not make you a naive or reactionary person, though.

    The problem is not so much your taste as the shame you feel about it.

    [YOUTUBE="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DeZvRRhLw5M"]Mainstream wisdom[/YOUTUBE]

  5. #205
    Senior Member Viridian's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    MBTI
    IsFJ
    Posts
    3,088

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Nicodemus View Post
    I got that.


    Personally, I think you try to fit in the wrong way - one might call it Fe fail. If I met you and learned about your taste in mainstream art, I would probably consider you inexperienced in art. That does not make you a naive or reactionary person, though.

    The problem is not so much your taste as the shame you feel about it.
    You are very kind, Nic. The problem goes a bit beyond "fitting in", though; however, since I'm afraid of making this thread a little too personal for this subforum, I'll only elaborate if you (or anyone else) want(s) me to, 'kay?

  6. #206
    Symbolic Herald Vasilisa's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    4,128

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Viridian View Post
    I've recently read a book on movies that described certain directors as "commercial", and I began thinking... Does everything that is popular or "mainstream" - however you might define the word - by definition un-progressive, whitewashed, "dumbed down", non-inclusive, "safe", or whatnot? Does something getting popular signal the meggido of its individuality/originality/convention-defying?

    And does liking "mainstream" stuff say anything about you?

    (Sorry if this is poorly articulated, I'm eager to clarify stuff if you ask.)
    Quote Originally Posted by Viridian View Post
    I want to enjoy what I enjoy. But I feel so ashamed...
    As an extremely wise scientist specializing in hydrogeology (a very underground discipline) was fond of quoting Heraclitus (c. 535 – c. 475 BC so old school) to me:
    you never step into the same river twice.

    I encourage you to read this very relevant thread:

    Guilty Pleasures... or just Pleasures?, one small excerpt:
    But beware: the opinion of the tribe is always evolving. Yes, my friend -- you have to be ready to adapt to new trends. For example, The Beatles, Led Zeppelin, AC/DC, Nirvana, and Radiohead have released records that received horrible reviews. However, the same publications that dismissed these releases have now declared these former duds to be among the most timeless records that rock and roll has to offer.

    Have you ever seen those blind wine tasting parties? The tasters are poured wines from assorted bottles, all of which are concealed. Then each gets to personally rate the wines without regard to vintage or price or perceived superiority. Its supposedly the truest way to get a sense of what one really enjoys.

    Quote Originally Posted by Viridian View Post
    Do you think I need to make another thread focused less on aesthetics and more on whether consuming mainstream stuff is detrimental to the advancement of society or whatnot?
    You are not the music you buy, the brands you are loyal to, the decorations you put on yourself. Its what culture has been selling us for quite a while now. There are interesting theories about conspicuous consumption especially in regard to social media and the underground coolness factor.
    from The Big Think
    Coolness makes people buy things they don't need, merely as a way to signal their evolutionary fitness. If that's the case, what is the new source of conspicuous Web consumption? It's not marketing, since, let's face it, the cooler a service is, the fewer people know about it. Facebook was cool at 100 thousand, but is it still cool at 100 million?

    I would argue that the new source of conspicuous Web consumption is the cult of the celebrity, which has finally migrated from the world of traditional media to the world of digital media. With its global scale and reach, the Internet has created the illusion that celebrity is easier to attain than ever before, with only the click of a mouse.
    from n+1

    In social media, where everyone can employ design ideology, the persistent messages of advertising—that magical self-transformation through purchases is possible, that one’s inner truth can be expressed through the manipulation of well-worked surfaces—become practical rather than insulting. Not only do the methods and associative logic of advertising become more concretely useful, but its governing ideology no longer seems conformist but radically individualistic. Social media encourage us to appropriate whatever we want and claim it as our own without feeling derivative or slavishly imitative. On Facebook, if I link to, say, a YouTube video of Bob Dylan singing “I Threw It All Away” on the Johnny Cash Show in 1969, I am saying something particular about myself, not merely consuming the performance. I am declaring that video clip to be essentially equivalent to an update I may have written about a trip to Philadelphia or to pictures of me at a party that someone might have tagged. It is all bricolage for personal identity building.

    I don't have the answers, but its interesting to watch and ponder, an interesting time to be alive. And in these days of social media saturation I think it can show some courage to be honest and like what you like.

    Quote Originally Posted by mmhmm View Post
    i love pop music.
    I remember Sophie B. Hawkins saying, "good pop music makes the fucking world go 'round" and I'm inclined to agree. In keeping with posting 90s pop vids, here is hers reaching the 5th spot on the US Billboard Hot 100 in 1992:
    [YOUTUBE="Lt6r-k9Bk6o"]Free your mind and you won't feel ashamed[/YOUTUBE]

    Quote Originally Posted by Nicodemus View Post
    Distaste for the banal comes from growing accustomed to the exquisite. Reading only complex literature, you are easily bored with the simple and obvious patterns of pulp fiction, but it also spoils the fun you might otherwise have drawn from it.
    Middlebrow is not the solution!

    Perhaps it sounds contradictory, but I, too, believe and practice offsetting and training away from a taste for the more trashy cultural amusement offerings by engaging in what I find has been elevating throughout time, which is often challenging, but enriching and gratifying in the long run. I feel the same way about when I consume a fast food meal versus when I make my own homemade meals from scratch. Fun isn't the same as happiness. But both have their place.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nicodemus View Post
    I am elegance.
    Quote Originally Posted by Marmie Dearest View Post
    I am karma.
    Oooh, its a refreshing new spin on this thread (formerly cool, but now decidedly mainstream).

    Quote Originally Posted by Nicodemus View Post
    Men need knowledge of the real world in order to hunt animals and collect crops. Women watch shadows on cave walls and make up stories to entertain children. Uga-uga.
    The shadows inspired them to make a singing magic while those men were asleep
    the formless thing which gives things form!
    Found Forum Haiku Project


    Positive Spin | your feedback welcomed | Darker Criticism

  7. #207
    Senior Member Viridian's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    MBTI
    IsFJ
    Posts
    3,088

    Default

    I appreciate the help, @Vasilisa... However, I didn't mean I buy things to form an identity, what I'm worried about is that I am being an accomplice to... something by buying stuff I like.

    It's just that... every time I have a class on sociology-related subjects, I can't help but see it as an ethical issue: "Are you going to be part of the generation that killed art and originality, the generation that undid centuries of exploration of the human spirit, the generation of people who watch YouTube videos and don't read Kant, Marx, or Foucault, the generation of acritical, intellectually slothful sheep that do not see the subtext in the great works, that do not analyze what they consume? Is that what yu want to be, Viridian?"

    I don't want to be a part of the decay of civilization into hedonism or something, but I also don't think I'm that much of a critical thinker - and, frankly, I'm not sure I want to be. If I'd rather read Terry Pratchett than Umberto Eco, does that mean I'm part of the problem?

  8. #208
    Permabanned
    Join Date
    May 2009
    MBTI
    ISFP
    Enneagram
    6w7 sx
    Socionics
    SEE Fi
    Posts
    25,301

    Default

    Do you really think less people read Marx now? I'm going to have to disagree. I'm not sure that people were too busy analyzing Elvis in the 50's or flapper dresses in the 20's, unless they were inclined toward that kind of thinking to begin with. And by inclined toward that kind of thinking, no I don't mean being an N.

    The only issue that I see as being extremely relevant is that about 100 years ago, people had amazing vocabularies. Zelda Fitzgerald never went to college, F. Scott Fitzgerald flunked and dropped out of Harvard Law school, Henry Miller survived maybe one semester of college, and Dorothy Parker even dropped out of high school...and they're considered some of the best writers of the 20th century. They all also thought critically to some degree about society. Both Fitzgeralds were SPs, as was Henry Miller, so it's not because they were Ns...people read more back in the day. There was no television so people read all of the time.

    That's the only gripe I have about modern life.

    And no I don't think reading Terry Pratchett means you're not a critical thinker. You seem to be suffering from an extreme excess of Fe guilt, in my opinion.

  9. #209
    Permabanned
    Join Date
    May 2009
    MBTI
    ISFP
    Enneagram
    6w7 sx
    Socionics
    SEE Fi
    Posts
    25,301

    Default

    OH, btw, F. Scott Fitzgerald was considered wildly popular fiction in his time, Zelda wrote magazine articles, and parents were aprehensive about the Fitzgeralds and the whole flapper movement; a couple of Henry Miller's books were banned in all English speaking countries for 22 years...and their work is now taught at high schools and universities.

    I wonder too, aside from reading more, if it was the pace of life that allowed people to think more and be creative. Life was at a slower pace, not only was there no TV, but people simply had more leisure time unless they were very low working class. People sat on front porches, et al. I think this led to some good writing and creative thoughts, and I don't think it's a mistake that many intellectuals limit their television consumption, among other things.

  10. #210
    Whisky Old & Women Young Speed Gavroche's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    MBTI
    EsTP
    Enneagram
    6w7 sx/sp
    Posts
    5,143

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Vasilisa View Post
    I remember Sophie B. Hawkins saying, "good pop music makes the fucking world go 'round" and I'm inclined to agree. In keeping with posting 90s pop vids, here is hers reaching the 5th spot on the US Billboard Hot 100 in 1992:
    [YOUTUBE="Lt6r-k9Bk6o"]Free your mind and you won't feel ashamed[/YOUTUBE]
    Excellent point for Sophie B Hawkins.

    Plus she's 6w7 Sx/So and libertarian just like me, so she's necessarly awesome.
    EsTP 6w7 Sx/Sp

    Chaotic Neutral

    E=60% S=55% T=70% P=80%

    "I don't believe in guilt, I only believe in living on impulses"

    "Stereotypes about personality and gender turn out to be fairly accurate: ... On the binary Myers-Briggs measure, the thinking-feeling breakdown is about 30/70 for women versus 60/40 for men." ~ Bryan Caplan

Similar Threads

  1. Does this movie intrigue fellow INXPers?
    By princesssockhead in forum Arts & Entertainment
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 12-18-2008, 12:57 AM
  2. Bad day - bad bad day.
    By Park in forum The Bonfire
    Replies: 10
    Last Post: 05-15-2007, 12:37 AM
  3. Does Eraserhead need a mastectomy?
    By Martoon in forum The Fluff Zone
    Replies: 24
    Last Post: 05-14-2007, 09:18 AM
  4. Bad Decisions
    By labyrinthine in forum The Bonfire
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 05-11-2007, 05:16 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO