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  1. #11
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fluffywolf View Post
    I'll teach you something funny about logic and I'll keep it very simple.

    If obtained knowledge/all existing knowledge is <1 then if x*2=10, x could be said to be 5, but what if x is only 2.5 and you've overlooked z completely?

    What z you say? Well, that's something we don't know, do we? Obtained knowledge / All existing knowledge is after all <1.
    I agree, math is a tool of definition used and applied in a constrained environment. Philosophical debates tho aint constrainable and shouldnt be treaten like math
    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

  2. #12
    Don't Judge Me! Haphazard's Avatar
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    I was pretty sure that atheism was a belief, as in, atheists need no more reason to believe that God doesn't exist than theists do. Theists often claim to "feel" God in dire situations... perhaps an atheists just doesn't.
    -Carefully taking sips from the Fire Hose of Knowledge

  3. #13
    Superwoman Red Herring's Avatar
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    There is a difference between

    atheist = somebody who believes there is no god

    and

    atheist = somebody who does not believe there is a god.

    The two definitions are often used alongside, but the difference is vital to this discussion!
    The good life is one inspired by love and guided by knowledge. Neither love without knowledge, nor knowledge without love can produce a good life. - Bertrand Russell
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  4. #14
    Nips away your dignity Fluffywolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Red Herring View Post
    There is a difference between

    atheist = somebody who believes there is no god

    and

    atheist = somebody who does not believe there is a god.

    The two definitions are often used alongside, but the difference is vital to this discussion!
    Somebody who does not believe there is a god is basicly an agnost. An agnost doesn't believe either way and will live their lives through their own rules.
    ~Self-depricating Megalomaniacal Superwolf

  5. #15
    Ginkgo
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    Quote Originally Posted by entropie View Post
    I agree, math is a tool of definition used and applied in a constrained environment. Philosophical debates tho aint constrainable and shouldnt be treaten like math
    Though terms are symbolic and not numerical, analytic philosophy should be treated very similarly to math.

  6. #16
    Superwoman Red Herring's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fluffywolf View Post
    Somebody who does not believe there is a god is basicly an agnost. An agnost doesn't believe either way and will live their lives through their own rules.
    That is not the definition I am used to.

    Atheism is, in a broad sense, the rejection of belief in the existence of deities.[1] In a narrower sense, atheism is specifically the position that there are no deities.[2] Most inclusively, atheism is simply the absence of belief that any deities exist.[3] Atheism is contrasted with theism,[4][5] which in its most general form is the belief that at least one deity exists.[5][6]
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atheism#cite_note-0

    Agnosticism is the view that the truth value of certain claims—especially claims about the existence or non-existence of any deity, but also other religious and metaphysical claims—is unknown or unknowable.[1][2][3] Agnosticism can be defined in various ways, and is sometimes used to indicate doubt or a skeptical approach to questions. In some senses, agnosticism is a stance about the difference between belief and knowledge, rather than about any specific claim or belief. In the popular sense, an agnostic is someone who neither believes nor disbelieves in God, whereas an atheist disbelieves in God. In the strict sense, however, agnosticism is the view that human reason is incapable of providing sufficient rational grounds to justify knowledge whether God exists or does not. Within agnosticism there are agnostic atheists (who do not believe any deity exists, but do not deny it as a possibility) and agnostic theists (who believe a God exists but do not claim to know that).
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agnosticism
    The good life is one inspired by love and guided by knowledge. Neither love without knowledge, nor knowledge without love can produce a good life. - Bertrand Russell
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  7. #17
    null Jonny's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fluffywolf View Post
    Somebody who does not believe there is a god is basicly an agnost. An agnost doesn't believe either way and will live their lives through their own rules.
    I don't believe this is the case. Agnosticism is not restricted to religious philosophy, and deals more with the belief that the truth of some things cannot be verified. An atheist is someone who does not believe there is a God, and although some atheists go so far as to believe there is no God, the second is not a necessary criteria whereas the first is.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  8. #18
    null Jonny's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ginkgo View Post
    Though terms are symbolic and not numerical, analytic philosophy should be treated very similarly to math.
    This might sound like an odd request, but I would very much appreciate it if you discussed in more detail the implications of your use of the term should in the quoted statement.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  9. #19
    Senior Member LEGERdeMAIN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Red Herring View Post
    There is a difference between
    atheist = somebody who believes there is no god
    and
    atheist = somebody who does not believe there is a god.
    The two definitions are often used alongside, but the difference is vital to this discussion!
    I suspect that there is no god, I do not suspect that there is a god. What difference?
    “Some people will tell you that slow is good – but I’m here to tell you that fast is better. I’ve always believed this, in spite of the trouble it’s caused me. Being shot out of a cannon will always be better than being squeezed out of a tube. That is why God made fast motorcycles, Bubba…”


  10. #20
    Superwoman Red Herring's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LEGERdeMAIN View Post
    I suspect that there is no god, I do not suspect that there is a god. What difference?
    The difference is quite significant.
    In the first case ("I suspect that there is no god", or rather "I believe there is no god") you are in deed proclaiming an assumption for which you have no ultimate proof, only clues. But for many people that is just fine and they are willing to take that risk.
    In the second case ("I do not suspect that there is a god" or "I do not believe there is a god") you simply proclaim the absence of a belief. Just as you have no belief in a 100m tall pink rabbit floating in outerspace.
    If you go by the first definition, an atheist makes a consious decision, he says he is convinced there is no god. He probably assumes he has proof or at least good reasons to doubt.
    If you go by the second definition, an atheist is just anybody who is not a theist. He doesn't necessarily claim to have proof, but doesn't need any either as he needs no proof in order to not believe in the big pink rabbit.

    A agnostic says it is inherently impossible to prove nor disprove the existence of the pink bunnie but is likely to have a preference one way or the other.
    The good life is one inspired by love and guided by knowledge. Neither love without knowledge, nor knowledge without love can produce a good life. - Bertrand Russell
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