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  1. #11
    Fe, rusted. Poser's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seanan View Post
    I understand what you're saying and agree but I was referring to the "respect" factor. When a teacher becomes a "buddy" its as bad for the kids as parents trying to be "friends." There should be lots of "authority figures" for a kid. Being too free and independent is proven to be subconsiously frightening to them and the cause of many psychological and behavior problems. They're too young developmentally to deal with the idea that "its just them"... they know as much as anyone else... yes, scarey. I'm sure I didn't say that well as I'm in a hurry.

    Nope. We are on the same page. Takes a village...


  2. #12
    ish red no longer *sad* nightning's Avatar
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    I noticed that when religious people say "church" they don't really mean "church church" as in the building... they say they mean "church" relating it to god... but to me... it felt like "church" is just a bunch of people forming a group... that's what "church" felt like.

  3. #13
    No me digas, che! Recoleta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seanan View Post
    I understand what you're saying and agree but I was referring to the "respect" factor. When a teacher becomes a "buddy" its as bad for the kids as parents trying to be "friends." There should be lots of "authority figures" for a kid. Being too free and independent is proven to be subconsiously frightening to them and the cause of many psychological and behavior problems. They're too young developmentally to deal with the idea that "its just them"... they know as much as anyone else... yes, scarey. I'm sure I didn't say that well as I'm in a hurry.
    I just realized that what I wrote didn't come off as well in writing as I wanted it to. When I said I am not "the authority" -- I did not mean to say I am not an authority figure. I certainly believe that I should be a good role model for my students and should not let them walk all over me. However, as with all things in life I believe balance is very important. I demand respect, but at the same time, I want my students to know that I care about them and will be open to talking with them and helping them when they need or want it. I am a very business-minded person and I don't mess around when I'm at work, but at the same time I believe it's very important that the students know that I am a human too -- I don't live in the school building and I certainly have a sense of humor that likes to come out. What I meant to say was that I am not simply there to be a complete "know-it-all" (a.k.a. the authority...the end all and say all on a certain subject that I teach). Sure, it is my job to be knowledgeable and to teach what I do know, but I do not want my classroom to be one where I tell my students, "I know everything, and you know nothing, I will tell you everything you need to know and later you will take a test and tell me how well you can regurgitate facts." I want to teach my students relevant things that they can use and apply in their lives -- which goes way beyond rote memorization.

    But anyway, trying to get this very off-topic post back on track, I was trying to use teaching as a metaphore to what I think a pastor should be doing with the congregation. The pastor is not there to say, "I have studied the Bible, therefore I know everything there is to know and I will now impart this information to you, the unknowledgeable congragation." No, I believe it is the pastor's job to bring up topics that are relevant to our lives, tell us what the Bible says about it, and urge us to evaluate our own lives and seek out accoutability and fellowship with others. So yeah, does that make a little more sense?

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Recoleta View Post
    Sure, it is my job to be knowledgeable and to teach what I do know, but I do not want my classroom to be one where I tell my students, "I know everything, and you know nothing, I will tell you everything you need to know and later you will take a test and tell me how well you can regurgitate facts." I want to teach my students relevant things that they can use and apply in their lives -- which goes way beyond rote memorization.

    But anyway, trying to get this very off-topic post back on track, I was trying to use teaching as a metaphore to what I think a pastor should be doing with the congregation. The pastor is not there to say, "I have studied the Bible, therefore I know everything there is to know and I will now impart this information to you, the unknowledgeable congragation." No, I believe it is the pastor's job to bring up topics that are relevant to our lives, tell us what the Bible says about it, and urge us to evaluate our own lives and seek out accoutability and fellowship with others. So yeah, does that make a little more sense?

    You sound like an excellent teacher.

    Back to religion, I think I would enjoy listening to a pastor who would be more like a teacher (and would probably even start going to church on a regular basis). But I wonder if a church like that would end up with a lot of agnostic members?


  5. #15
    homo-loving sonovagun anii's Avatar
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    - "the part-time job you're not getting paid for"
    - "poor substitution for genuine community"
    - "you won't get laid here"
    - "obsolete method for controlling the behavior of the masses"
    - "old fangled real estate acquisition apparatus"
    - "all the dogma you didn't know you don't need"
    - "institutionalized conditional love"
    - "same dirty old men, different venue"
    - "so over"
    There's reason to be afraid, and reason to open your heart. ~ Seal

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  6. #16
    No me digas, che! Recoleta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BryNTP View Post
    Back to religion, I think I would enjoy listening to a pastor who would be more like a teacher (and would probably even start going to church on a regular basis). But I wonder if a church like that would end up with a lot of agnostic members?
    Possibly, but what would be so wrong with that?

  7. #17
    Senior Member swordpath's Avatar
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    boring. pointless. unnecessary.

    That's how I'd define church.

  8. #18
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
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    Default The Dose

    Poets create religion; prophets abuse religion; and priests do it to death.

    Religion is usually started by a charismatic person but charisma only lasts a short time - rarely even the life the life of an individual. But life must go on - so the religion must become bureaucratised and so loses its charisma - but we constantly seek to regain that careless rapture - so we have revivals or we criticize our religion as lifeless.

    The problem is that poets are dangerous but bureaucracies are lifeless.

    My answer is that religion is very nice, in small doses.

    And the toxicity lies in the dose.

    Victor.

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Recoleta View Post
    Possibly, but what would be so wrong with that?
    Actually, I have no idea what a large gathering of agnostics would be like. I can imagine it would be more like a press conference or maybe a large courtroom where everyone is the lawyer standing up and yelling "I object". It would be hard for the pastor to get his message across. Seriously though, I think for a religion/church to exist it would have to appeal to feelings more than logic. The logic in faith will never be able to be substantiated so it would be a losing argument. So, I think churches have to depend on the emotional and if you don't have that emotional connection you wouldn't find much enjoyment in being there.


  10. #20
    Senior Member cafe's Avatar
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    The logic of faith is built upon premises that are accepted on faith. Hermeneutics and apologetics are systems of logic built on premises of faith.

    I'm personally a kind of agnostic (because I don't think anyone can know in this life) and a believer (because I believe). Church is a gathering of believers that meets in order to learn, encourage one another, and/or worship. I agree that most of the ministers we've heard are not as educated as we might like or at least they don't break out the good stuff in regular services, which is too bad and sometimes frustrating.

    We didn't attend services for close to a year but we didn't feel right about it because we do want to obey the teaching not to forsake the assembly and we want our kids to have the exposure to Sunday School, etc. We like and respect our pastors and their wives. They are some of the most loving, accepting people we've ever met. That seems to help the overall climate of the congregation.

    Our church is non-denominational, so they only really concentrate on the major points of doctrine when they do hit on it. I've heard a lot of churches say they were non-denominational, but our pastor, for instance, is a pre-tribber and our associate pastor is a post-tribber. It's not a secret and there is some teasing about, but it's not a big deal. I like that.

    So we go out of obedience and more for fellowship than teaching and sometimes we have to make ourselves put in the time because we'd just as soon be at home sleeping. We certainly don't think going to church makes us good people.* It's just the right thing for us to do, so we try to do it even if it's not always a great time.

    *My husband and I met at Bible college and some of the most callous, dishonest, unkind people we've ever met were administrators there. Regular church attenders and former pastors of many years, the lot of them. It didn't make those men good. Getting the living crap beat out of them in a barroom brawl because they were rude pricks might have helped them improve, but church sure wasn't doing the trick.
    “There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.”
    ~ John Rogers

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