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  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Helios View Post
    I didn't suggest that you ought to change your mind just because I have recommended that you do so. I've not made an "argument" because no argument has been (politely) requested.



    I'm not your brother.



    These anonymous "history books" are presumably concerned with past society and culture. These are scarcely relevant to an accurate depiction of contemporary society, or indeed an appraisal of Feminism.
    You're a revisionist, and you apparently don't realize that feminism exists because of the state of society in the VERY RECENT PAST. I can't stand it when people don't respect that history is relevant because it speaks volumes about the human condition. I am definitely of the mentality that those who do not remember history are doomed to repeat it.

    Also, I'm not going to "politely" ask you for anything after you told me "I'd better stop that." Who the fuck do you think you are? People like you are all the same, you want to talk down to people but then have them defer to you or be respectful to you. Dream on.

    Unsurprising also that you don't believe in feminism.

  2. #62
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    I think the South African commercial with the big boobed chick has its sexism level slightly mitigated by the fact that the person who knows better than her is also a female.
    Go to sleep, iguana.


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  3. #63
    Senior Member jimrckhnd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmie Dearest View Post
    You're a revisionist, and you apparently don't realize that feminism exists because of the state of society in the VERY RECENT PAST. I can't stand it when people don't respect that history is relevant because it speaks volumes about the human condition. I am definitely of the mentality that those who do not remember history are doomed to repeat it.
    Indeed. My mother became a chemist when, by and large, women didn't do that kind of thing. She took alot of crap in the process of her education and her career. She eventually had her own lab group in an Army lab and it took many, many years before she was fully accepted by some of her more conservative peers and superiors.

    And of course there is a contingent of knuckle draggers who'd be happy to consign women back to the secretarial pool if they could. The feminist movement and some of the changes it brought about are not history – they qualify as current events.
    Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups

  4. #64
    Senior Member Helios's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmie Dearest View Post
    You're a revisionist, and you apparently don't realize that feminism exists because of the state of society in the VERY RECENT PAST. I can't stand it when people don't respect that history is relevant because it speaks volumes about the human condition. I am definitely of the mentality that those who do not remember history are doomed to repeat it.
    I'm studying (ancient) history myself at university, and am really quite enamoured with it. Nevertheless, you appeared to recommend that I read history books in order to understand contemporary society. I'd sooner consult psychological and sociological literature, not to mention my eyes.

    With respect to what am I a revisionist?


    Quote Originally Posted by Marmie Dearest View Post
    Also, I'm not going to "politely" ask you for anything after you told me "I'd better stop that." Who the fuck do you think you are? People like you are all the same, you want to talk down to people but then have them defer to you or be respectful to you. Dream on.

    Unsurprising also that you don't believe in feminism.
    Your use of profanity and tone here suggest to me that you have become, somewhat ironically, emotionally invested in our exchange. I have so far been courteous. Note that I do believe in Feminism-I merely deny that it is correct.

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Helios View Post
    Nevertheless, you appeared to recommend that I read history books in order to understand contemporary society. I'd sooner consult psychological and sociological literature, not to mention my eyes.
    I'm pretty sure that understanding the history of a society will lend to some understanding of its contemporary state.

    Quote Originally Posted by Helios View Post
    Note that I do believe in Feminism-I merely deny that it is correct.
    Correct about what? To what feminism are you referring?
    Artes, Scientia, Veritasiness

  6. #66
    Senior Member Helios's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orangey View Post
    I'm pretty sure that understanding the history of a society will lend to some understanding of its contemporary state.
    Perhaps some, but I resent the use of history as a tool to understand the present, especially when the aforementioned disciplines are clearly far better placed to do so.


    Quote Originally Posted by Orangey View Post
    Correct about what? To what feminism are you referring?
    I'm referring to generic Feminism. When I say that I don't think that Feminism is correct, I mean that Feminism is false.

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Helios View Post
    I'm studying (ancient) history myself at university, and am really quite enamoured with it. Nevertheless, you appeared to recommend that I read history books in order to understand contemporary society. I'd sooner consult psychological and sociological literature, not to mention my eyes.

    With respect to what am I a revisionist?




    Your use of profanity and tone here suggest to me that you have become, somewhat ironically, emotionally invested in our exchange. I have so far been courteous. Note that I do believe in Feminism-I merely deny that it is correct.
    I am not emotionally invested in our exchange. Let me explain something all of you uptight upper-middle class NT academics: my manner of speaking IS HOW I TALK. It has nothing to do with being emotional, it is how I speak. I do not believe in altering my speech to conform to a bland grad school standard to suit you, or anyone else. But especially people like yourself, who seem to think there's something inherently superior about choosing words which are "politically correct."

    Think of it as a sketch from a movie or television show from 1970's England, with a punk pushing an uptight old man off of a bridge, and you might begin to get the picture.

    To answer your questions, I think you are a revisionist because you refuse to examine how feminism began as very real conditions in society. Psychology and sociology are chosen subjects for myself as well (and certainly my own life experience is) but without history you're getting an incomplete picture with half-assed answers, like a work horse wearing blinders.

  8. #68
    Blah Orangey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Helios View Post
    Perhaps some, but I resent the use of history as a tool to understand the present, especially when the aforementioned disciplines are clearly far better placed to do so.
    Sociology and psychology also have to take into account historical context in their disciplinary approaches. Not to mention that (especially in the case of sociology) there are whole areas of inter-disciplinary work that involve history. To divorce history from ANY academic discipline in the humanities or social sciences is naive.

    Quote Originally Posted by Helios View Post
    I'm referring to generic Feminism. When I say that I don't think that Feminism is correct, I mean that Feminism is false.
    There is no such thing as "generic feminism," so I'm going to have to insist that you define what you mean by the term.

    Quote Originally Posted by Helios View Post
    When I say that I don't think that Feminism is correct, I mean that Feminism is false.
    Well no shit. Don't dodge the question.
    Artes, Scientia, Veritasiness

  9. #69
    Emerging Tallulah's Avatar
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    Past attitudes lead to present attitudes. Those attitudes are passed on in subtle ways from generation to generation, and in the rules of institutions (official AND unspoken). You can't ignore history as a component in the psychosocial attitudes and mores of today. Much like slavery and its aftermath continues to impact racial attitudes in subtle ways, so does the history of oppression and sexist attitudes in social institutions, the workplace, certain regions and cultures, etc.
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  10. #70
    No moss growing on me Giggly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmie Dearest View Post
    I consider myself a feminist, and some people might even consider me quite an outspoken one, but I'm not an extremist feminist...and anyway, I was looking at some old television advertisements, and this was considered the number one most sexist ad in their top ten list.

    http://www.adweek.com/video/sexist-a...ar-133391?auto

    The weird thing is, I didn't find it sexist. I thought it was sweet. It was more protective, than insulting. Like in my mind I thought it meant the intention was for one's wife to be safe. I can see how some women would find that disempowering, but I didn't think it should have been the number one most sexist ad. There are worse ones out there, like beer commercials. In fact I thought some of the commercials in the thread were sexist, some not so much, like they were just digging. There was a commercial in the top five that was just like an 80's commercial of little girls playing with kitchen and washer and dryer sets. I didn't think there was anything inherently sexist about that one, either.

    I'm just bringing this up as a topic because I'm usually very aware of misogyny but I just don't necessarily see it everywhere.

    What about you?
    I'm late but those made me laugh. They don't offend me personally but I'm not against traditional gender roles. They're also meant to highlight bad things, which is what makes the commercials funny. Talking about good things, is not funny and people like to laugh.

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