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  1. #151
    Ginkgo
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jenaphor View Post
    What part don't you understand so I can try to explain it in a way that you do understand?
    What I don't understand is why you would install a computer in your kitchen.

  2. #152
    Senior Member Helios's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jenaphor View Post
    What does the word waffle mean to you?
    "Lengthy but trivial or useless talk or writing". I might add "nonsensical" to that also.

  3. #153
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    Quote Originally Posted by Helios View Post
    "Lengthy but trivial or useless talk or writing". I might add "nonsensical" to that also.
    That's so interesting because her argument seems more logical and efficient than your own, which seems steeped in flowery unnecessary specialized jargon, meanwhile saying next to nothing in content.

    I also think it's interesting that no matter who disagrees with you (ExFP, ENTJ, or ISTP), you find their style of communication disagreeable...is this because they're disagreeing with you?

  4. #154
    nee andante bechimo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ginkgo View Post
    What I don't understand is why you would install a computer in your kitchen.
    Apparently so!

  5. #155
    Ginkgo
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jenaphor View Post
    Apparently so!
    Now you listen to me, woman. It doesn't matter what you think. I'm a feminist!

  6. #156
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    Quote Originally Posted by Helios View Post
    How can you say that "generic Feminism" doesn't exist when you're unaware of how your interlocutor is defining the term?

    I'd define generic Feminism as something like the following:


    The position that women ought to enjoy equality (principally legal, social and economic) with men + {miscellaneous propositions}.
    When you say "generic feminism," you're talking about both formal definitions of "feminism", correct? I'm basing that on your equation above. Here are the formal definitions I'm referring to:

    1. Belief in the social, political, and economic equality of the sexes.
    2. The movement organized around this belief.

    It's the second definition that disturbs you, no? (As represented by the second half of your equation.) Because of the unknown and the knowns of what that entails in the present. Which explains why you don't care about the history of the feminist movement. You are only concerned with the present state of affairs that affects you now and not what led up to it. Am I right??

    So you coined the term "generic feminism" to encompass the second definition of feminism (above) and all of its 'knows' and 'unknowns' to *you*, correct?

    In summary, you agree with the first definition of equality for the sexes, but not the second definition, as it also applies to the present state of the feminism movement, which you don't agree with 100% of what's being advocated there, correct?

  7. #157
    Dreaming the life onemoretime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jenaphor View Post
    Therein lies the rub. There's no objectivity to the flow of your logic.
    There's no objectivity in any form of logic. It all ultimately devolves to mutually agreed-upon points of view, based on criteria that are personally pleasing to the individual.

    Language is a form of communication. If everyone disagrees with your definition of a word, while subjectively you have the right to your belief in the definition of the word, it doesn't make your interpretation accurate as it relates to the word, particularly for everyone else.
    Or, you may simply disagree with that definition. There's no harm in that.

    As an example of such, let's take the word strawberry. Most people would take it for a red coloured fruit, shaped where the cylindrical top tapers down to a point on the bottom. There are many tan coloured seeds that are attached to the outside of the fruit, most often sweet and rich in flavour but sometimes a bit tart. Now your definition is that it's actually a fruit that's greenish in colour, where it's not cylindrical, more oval from a top view where it does taper to a blunt end on the bottom but not to a point. You also state that it's sour and sometimes bitter.

    While both definitions are somewhat accurate, most people are looking at the positives, as well as the average nature of strawberries. Your definition appears to surround unripe strawberries that aren't of average shape or flavour.

    It's very much the same logic as the law analogy expressed in my last post. To use an old adage "don't throw the baby out with the bathwater". There are no perfect people or concepts and to discard the concept due to a lack of perfection particularly when focused on the extreme negative elements of the concept, isn't an objective view or logical in nature.
    Does that matter, though, that his perspective clashes with your own? Is there anything to learn from this?

  8. #158
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    Quote Originally Posted by onemoretime View Post
    Or, you may simply disagree with that definition. There's no harm in that.
    Despite what they're saying about the definition. The issue appears to be that they simply don't like the term Helios coined, "generic feminism". If you look at Helios's quote in my previous post above, there's nothing wrong with Helios's definitions. It looks like folks are just battling over usage of a coined term because it doesn't tell us much in the way of definition and "generic feminism" is not commonly said, if at all. Regardless, that's neither here nor there. People coin terms all the time; it's fine. Helios explained what was meant by the term multiple times. They're battling for nothing.

  9. #159
    nee andante bechimo's Avatar
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    Now that I've finished prepping dinner in the kitchen (yes, honestly! ), I can apply myself for a bit to this discussion.

    Quote Originally Posted by onemoretime View Post
    There's no objectivity in any form of logic. It all ultimately devolves to mutually agreed-upon points of view, based on criteria that are personally pleasing to the individual.
    Disagree. Objective logic considers all aspects of the viewed concept or object. Once all aspects are considered, it's no longer rationale that's focused on solely the negative.
    Or, you may simply disagree with that definition. There's no harm in that.
    Did you notice that not once did I say he wasn't entitled to his view? I recall saying that he was entitled to his view but that his definition was based on rationale, instead of objective logic. And considering how he's been purporting to logic in his rebuttal to a number of members, it's necessary to illustrate his own subjectivity.
    Does that matter, though, that his perspective clashes with your own? Is there anything to learn from this?
    This is a two-fold issue. The first issue is his rationale, that he believes his views to be objective in nature where they're highly subjective. He's welcome to believe his subjective view but if he wants to improve his world view, he might want to opt out of his subjective reasoning, taking all parts of the whole concept in mind, prior to rejection.

    And quite frankly, it's disappointing to see a Ti-dom who's incapable of objective logic.

  10. #160
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nerd Girl View Post
    Despite what they're saying about the definition. The issue appears to be that they simply don't like the term Helios coined, "generic feminism". If you look at Helios's quote in my previous post above, there's nothing wrong with Helios's definitions. It looks like folks are just battling over usage of a coined term because it doesn't tell us much in the way of definition and "generic feminism" is not commonly said, if at all. Regardless, that's neither here nor there. People coin terms all the time; it's fine. Helios explained what was meant by the term multiple times. They're battling for nothing.
    No, that's not the issue. The issue is that Helios declared that "generic feminism" is "false" because there are some false propositions that could fit in the {miscellaneous propositions} part of his formula. When it was brought up that not all of the possible variations of propositions that might fit into that container are false (thereby making his claim that, by his own definition, feminism is "false" incorrect), he said that it didn't matter because he couldn't be bothered to recognize or make such distinctions between these propositions. Which is a long-winded, idiotic way of saying that he is either too lazy or too afraid of the associations that people might make if he said that he thought feminism was "correct."
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