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  1. #131
    Senior Member Helios's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Not_Me View Post
    How were you able to discern that they did not enjoy the exchange with you?
    I was more referring to my own experience.

    Quote Originally Posted by Not_Me View Post
    You seem to be claiming that the term "feminist" only applied to those who endorsed every radical opinions ever put forth by past proponents. That is clearly false.
    That would be a caricature of my position. One need only accept one proposition populating the "miscellaneous propositions" category. The point is that almost every person who identifies as a Feminist in fact identifies as a generic Feminist; that is, they accept the equality "part" of my definition and at least one of the miscellaneous propositions, all of which are absurd. I accept the former only, and thus am not a Feminist (generic Feminist), as I refuse to countenance any of the "miscellaneous propositions".

  2. #132
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    Quote Originally Posted by Helios View Post
    The point is that almost every person who identifies as a Feminist in fact identifies as a generic Feminist; that is, they accept the equality "part" of my definition and at least one of the miscellaneous propositions, all of which are absurd. I accept the former only, and thus am not a Feminist (generic Feminist), as I refuse to countenance any of the "miscellaneous propositions".
    You are using a definition that almost no one else recognizes.

  3. #133
    Senior Member Helios's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Not_Me View Post
    You are using a definition that almost no one else recognizes.
    I don't know what you're trying to say here.

  4. #134
    Undisciplined Starry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Helios View Post
    I didn't think that Orangey was swearing at me per se.
    I appreciate you taking the time to answer this. Thanks.

  5. #135
    Emperor/Dictator kyuuei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Helios View Post
    I did not say "History means nothing in comparison to my own eyes"; please refrain from misquoting me. I don't agree that your not understanding is a result of a miscommunication on my part. There was not even the slightest hint that history doesn't pertain to current society in any of my posts-how could it not, given that it provides causal explanations for how our society has arisen? I only stated that "I'd sooner consult psychological and sociological literature, not to mention my eyes (than history)" in order "to understand contemporary society". The difference here is subtle, but is a difference regardless.
    So subtle that it doesn't make any sense to go out of my way to distinguish them. "History is impotant!! I love it! But not when it comes to feminism. I'm not going to use it at all to come to my conclusions in this particular matter, because other things are better imo.." is the same as saying "History is useless here." What difference are you trying to convey? It isn't just *my* lack of understanding.. THREE people have 'mistaken' your words now. Something isn't communicating right, and apparently it isn't the way we're reading your post. That's all I was saying.

    [FONT="Palatino Linotype"]The way a person is communicating is an excellent guide to how they're feeling. If they're calmly discussing a matter with you, avoiding petty insults, keeping their voice quiet and even, etc. you are justified in believing that they're being quite reasonable, and not feeling much emotion. If, on the other hand, they're regularly insulting you-something, incidentally, which I've come to expect from my interlocutors in this thread- whilst shouting in your face that you're incorrect, etc., it's fair to suspect that they're feeling emotional. Communicating in the latter way I've described might even reinforce those emotions which have caused that particular mode of communication.
    I didn't say that communicating language wasn't a way to understand. Only that it isn't THE way to understand. Calm, overly polite demeanors like your own could come off as sarcastic (Disclaimer: I am not saying you've been sarcastic this whole thread..).. It all depends on the circumstance. You're not being sarcastic, but take this way of talking and stick it in another thread and I could easily see someone 'mistaking' you for being that way. All I said was you're mistaken in thinking she's completely emotionally invested in what you've said. And it's a bit crazy that you seem to think that people only throw insults around when they're being emotional. Sometimes people just call others out on what they believe to be bullshit. I can think of a slew of INTJs that would prove your reasoning wrong alone.

    Feminism is a very heated topic--I don't doubt passion will come through for people who want to debate it. But I'm saying she wasn't being emotional.. just passionate in the way she debates. I communicate with her all the time--I'd hope I'd know the difference between when something TRULY is upseting her, and when she finds something absurd. She's being blunt, and brutal... but that's just the way she is. She's always been that way. There isn't emotional connection involved. Again, that's all I was pointing out.

    The gender of my interlocutor is irrelevant to my inferences about their mental states. My belief that she was acting emotionally is based on what she said, not who she is. Sexism has been incomprehensible and odious to me from a young age. That's not about to change now, and your conclusion here is without basis in fact.
    If you say so.. But posting in a feminist thread, about how a woman you're debating with (while ever-so gracefully pointing out that you think feminism is a crock of shit) is becoming emotional about your posts.. I suppose it's a knee-jerk reaction to come to the conclusion I did.

    As said to another person, I don't think Orangey was swearing at me per se. He also seems more detached, though, admittedly, not much more.
    I even told you right in my own post.. Orangey is a She as well. I don't think she's anymore detached than Marm is, she just has a different way of communicating that's more mellow overall.

    Quote Originally Posted by Helios View Post
    I don't know what you're trying to say here.
    They're saying that you created this definition in your own head that NO ONE Else knows about. It's like saying, "I think Churches are horseshit." And everyone goes "WHAAT!?!" and you go, "Oh, I meant the restaurant.. I know ya'll don't have them here where you live and never heard of them, but if you were to ever try them, they're total shit."
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  6. #136
    Dreaming the life onemoretime's Avatar
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    Quick question: is there any reason, other than tradition, that we still call it "feminism" and not "gender egalitarianism?"

  7. #137
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    Quote Originally Posted by Helios View Post
    I didn't think that Orangey was swearing at me per se.


    You're really something else.

  8. #138
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    Quote Originally Posted by Helios View Post
    I did not say "History means nothing in comparison to my own eyes"; please refrain from misquoting me. I don't agree that your not understanding is a result of a miscommunication on my part. There was not even the slightest hint that history doesn't pertain to current society in any of my posts-how could it not, given that it provides causal explanations for how our society has arisen? I only stated that "I'd sooner consult psychological and sociological literature, not to mention my eyes (than history)" in order "to understand contemporary society". The difference here is subtle, but is a difference regardless.



    The way a person is communicating is an excellent guide to how they're feeling. If they're calmly discussing a matter with you, avoiding petty insults, keeping their voice quiet and even, etc. you are justified in believing that they're being quite reasonable, and not feeling much emotion. If, on the other hand, they're regularly insulting you-something, incidentally, which I've come to expect from my interlocutors in this thread- whilst shouting in your face that you're incorrect, etc., it's fair to suspect that they're feeling emotional. Communicating in the latter way I've described might even reinforce those emotions which have caused that particular mode of communication.

    Now, to consider the relevant poster's conduct:

    In response to a query about whether I'm "insecure":




    This, after I'd not said twenty words.



    Not exactly a paragon of equanimity. I must be fascinated with war and conquest because I'm a male non-Feminist.



    More angry insults. Apparently, the poster is quite upset.



    This is simply a diatribe.



    More juvenile reaction.



    Yet another diatribe. The extent to which the poster here has misunderstood me is almost comical, by the way.









    The poster continues to berate me-here, about my signature-even after our exchange is over. I don't think anyone can say with a straight face that the poster is not being emotional here.



    And again.

    If this isn't emotional, nothing is.



    The gender of my interlocutor is irrelevant to my inferences about their mental states. My belief that she was acting emotionally is based on what she said, not who she is. Sexism has been incomprehensible and odious to me from a young age. That's not about to change now, and your conclusion here is without basis in fact.



    As said to another person, I don't think Orangey was swearing at me per se. He also seems more detached, though, admittedly, not much more.



    Just as being shot in the head doesn't necessarily mean death.
    A person can logically deduce that you're an idiot and use swear words because that's how they choose to speak.

  9. #139
    nee andante bechimo's Avatar
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    Helios, perhaps the way to approach it is to admit that your disbelief in Feminism isn't based on objective logic but subjective rationale, opinion and interpretation of definition. It might garner you a bit more respect.

  10. #140
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    Oh and by the way, P.S. "You should do this, you should do that" and getting all butthurt over my swearing seems emotional from you. You actually seem to be utilizing your F function quite a bit. And your signature, as I've already said, is absolutely idiotic hyperbole. Saying that altruism is more insidious than the holocaust or slavery is just shockingly stupid and isn't going to go far in getting people to take your side. You're using emotional appeals in your signature to try to get people to see your point of view - exaggerated emotional appeals, which are logically non-sense.

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