Degrees of Feminism

[rav3n]

In my opinion, as long as the legal framework ensures equal rights for everyone, the social aspects are kind of moot to me. I do not support any form of compensatory law.

 

[Lark]

I dont think the identification of feminism by waves is as accurate as identification by ideologies, liberal, radical, socialist, conservative, nationalist, anarcha, libertarian and finally post-feminism.

 

[violet_crown]

What you say you don't identify with is Second Wave Feminism, Third Wave Feminism encompasses varying race, socio-economic and other issues as well as gender equality.

Hence me saying "historically" in my comment.

I think it's really sad that people think Second Wave Feminism is what feminism is, in its entirety. It's not about middle class white women and butch dykes who hate men and think all heterosexual sex is rape.

Meh. What's sad is the fact that a movement purporting to speak for the rights of all women took nearly a century to even take into consideration the issues that actually affect most women, and then expects us to rush to pick up t-shirts when they do. Fuck Feminism.

 

[Magic Poriferan]

I think third wave feminism is flawed because it lacks a foundation or enthusiasm. If you look up the waves of feminism, you'll get two clear descriptions and then something along the lines of muttering and shrugging.

I am on the fence about the place of sex work and the sexualization of women in feminism.

 

[Thalassa]

Hence me saying "historically" in my comment.



Meh. What's sad is the fact that a movement purporting to speak for the rights of all women took nearly a century to even take into consideration the issues that actually affect most women, and then expects us to rush to pick up t-shirts when they do. Fuck Feminism.

But it's why we are where we are at today. You might not think it's useful any longer, but to say it was never useful is really blinding oneself to how different society would be without it.

It's as though some people imagine that things just magically got this way without any politics, revolution, or trouble. It simply does not work that way.

I'm not claiming that's what you're saying, but the validity of feminism in history is painfully obvious, even if some agree that we've reached a point in society where something as onemoretime suggested like "gender equality" would make more sense.

 

[rav3n]

Meh. What's sad is the fact that a movement purporting to speak for the rights of all women took nearly a century to even take into consideration the issues that actually affect most women, and then expects us to rush to pick up t-shirts when they do. Fuck Feminism.

What are you talking about?

 

[Thalassa]

I think third wave feminism is flawed because it lacks a foundation or enthusiasm. If you look up the waves of feminism, you'll get two clear descriptions and then something along the lines of muttering and shrugging.

I am on the fence about the place of sex work and the sexualization of women in feminism.

I disagree. As someone who was an adolescent during the 90's when Third Wave Feminism was fresh and strong, there was a great deal of influence on working class women and women of color and gender-queers that had not existed, no not so much, before that time. I have had the opportunity to watch little things change in my lifetime, and there's nothing like someone my mom's age or older to tell you what it really used to be like.

A ton of things have progressed in terms of gender equality since the early 90's. 2011 is like a dreamland in comparison.

 

[violet_crown]

But it's why we are where we are at today. You might not think it's useful any longer, but to say it was never useful is really blinding oneself to how different society would be without it.

It's as though some people imagine that things just magically got this way without any politics, revolution, or trouble. It simply does not work that way.

I'm not claiming that's what you're saying, but the validity of feminism in history is painfully obvious , even if some agree that we've reached a point in society where something as onemoretime suggested like "gender equality" would make more sense.

If you dont mind, it would be helpful for me if you could provide evidence for these two statements.

 

[Magic Poriferan]

I disagree. As someone who was an adolescent during the 90's when Third Wave Feminism was fresh and strong, there was a great deal of influence on working class women and women of color and gender-queers that had not existed, no not so much, before that time. I have had the opportunity to watch little things change in my lifetime, and there's nothing like someone my mom's age or older to tell you what it really used to be like.

A ton of things have progressed in terms of gender equality since the early 90's. 2011 is like a dreamland in comparison.

Is that because of third wave feminism or would it have happened like that regardless? Is third wave feminism an extraneous concept? I ask because I'm pretty sure things progressed from 1970 to 1980, and from 1980 to 1990, so what is the significance of it progressing from 1990 to 2000? What deserves credit for that?

 

[Thalassa]

Is that because of third wave feminism or would it have happened like that regardless? Is third wave feminism an extraneous concept? I ask because I'm pretty sure things progressed from 1970 to 1980, and from 1980 to 1990, so what is the significance of it progressing from 1990 to 2000? What deserves credit for that?

The Third Wave Feminists who softened it from the earlier, angrier forms of feminism and made it more all-inclusive.

Things change because new generations are born. The waves imply generations of women taking tangible actions, not just a stale philosophy.

 

[Thalassa]

If you dont mind, it would be helpful for me if you could provide evidence for these two statements.

So you believe that gender equality would have happened so quickly without feminism? If you examine history and the way women's roles changed rapidly from the 1960's to the 1970's, do you think it's a coincidence that it coincides with Second Wave Feminism/The Sexual Revolution and Gay Rights? Do you think it's a coincidence that women obtained the right to vote and started wearing no corsets and shorter skirts and pants soon following First Wave Feminism?

The pioneers of feminism were women who actively did things to change society on a wide scale.

 

[violet_crown]

What are you talking about?

I'm not sure what you're asking here.

 

[rav3n]

So you believe that gender equality would have happened so quickly without feminism? If you examine history and the way women's roles changed rapidly from the 1960's to the 1970's, do you think it's a coincidence that it coincides with Second Wave Feminism/The Sexual Revolution and Gay Rights? Do you think it's a coincidence that women obtained the right to vote and started wearing no corsets and shorter skirts and pants soon following First Wave Feminism?

The pioneers of feminism were women who actively did things to change society on a wide scale.

I get the feeling Wind-up rex was looking to Feminism as the miracle cure for the plight of black women and since it didn't provide a racial revolution in her eyes, it's rejected. Realistically, there's no way that Feminism could create miracle cures which is why the civil rights movement needed to happen first.

 

[Ginkgo]

As a Libertarian, I want to maximize the rights of all females.

CHAOS! COMPLETE CHAOS!

FWAhAHAHAHhHAH

 

[Jaguar]

I want to maximize the rights of all females.

 

[Ginkgo]

I don't get it.

 

[Jaguar]

I don't get it.

Gloria Steinem.

 

[Ginkgo]

Gloria Steinem.

 

[Thalassa]

I get the feeling Wind-up rex was looking to Feminism as the miracle cure for the plight of black women and since it didn't provide a racial revolution in her eyes, it's rejected. Realistically, there's no way that Feminism could create miracle cures which is why the civil rights movement needed to happen first.

I see, and her dissatisfaction is understandable. On the other hand, one can't expect miracle cures for societal ills from singular political movements or from a particular president.

It's unfortunate, but it's reality...and that goes for any marginalized group or social issue.

 

[rav3n]

I see, and her dissatisfaction is understandable. On the other hand, one can't expect miracle cures for societal ills from singular political movements or from a particular president.

It's unfortunate, but it's reality...and that goes for any marginalized group or social issue.

Take a look at the population of the U.S. between 1790 - 1990 broken down by race and then a breakdown between white and hispanic. These statistics tell the story better. All non-caucasian races were marginalised including my own, but I don't hold a gender based movement responsible, instead looking to the Civil Rights movement to firstly equalise race and then Feminism to equalise gender.

http://www.census.gov/population/www/documentation/twps0056/twps0056.html