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  1. #1
    Plumage and Moult proteanmix's Avatar
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    Default Have a wildcat moment :-)

    Can cause create effect?

    OR

    Can effect create the cause?

    OR

    Can cause and effect be the same?

    OR

    0/0= contradiction?

    I'm friggin Ti-ing out!


    May move to Graveyard depending on responses.

  2. #2
    ish red no longer *sad* nightning's Avatar
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    Can cause create effect?
    Cause => effect
    No cause, no effect due to cause
    Therefore cause create specific effect...
    But system is not in isolation...
    multiple causes => interaction => effects
    Therefore cause alter effect.
    Effect only due to cause if it's 100% dependent on cause.

    Effect create the cause?
    What is the cause? *scratches head* Effect can create causes of other things... but are we talking about human cause and effect here? Because people have theory of mind. We can make predictions of the possible effects of some action... If we don't like the effects, we don't take the action. Therefore imagining the effect can affect the cause. We choose the cause based on possible effects imagined. Therefore effect can create causes... but only because we have theory of mind.

    Cause = effect?
    *more scratching head* Only if the cause affects itself?
    How do you define that? What is cause? Cause = action... action is VERB can an action be affected? Headache... BAD!!! No cause cannot be the same as effect. Because "cause" is initiation of the action... By nature of an effect can only occur after something is done... cause cannot be effect. The time frame doesn't overlap.

    0/0 = infinity?
    I don't know what infinity is... where is Nemo when you need him? Blah! clown fish aren't very useful are they?

    *Ni kiddie with marker walks out of room*

  3. #3
    a white iris elfinchilde's Avatar
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    perhaps if one views it as a cycle, rather than a straight line?

    Cause creates effect, which creates other causes, and other effects.

    The sign of infinity is the lemniscate (the horizontal 8). Perhaps a better sign of cause and effect would be the moebius band. With no beginning nor ending, if you cut the strip lengthwise (ie, if you try to separate cause and effect), you get a wider, and wider loop.



    A branch of greek philosophy took the argument to the end: that if there are causes and effects, then, there must be a singular cause at the start.

    Nihilism says there is no cause; it was a random generation of coincidences which triggered off the cycle.

    Buddhist philosophy has perhaps a more forward looking view: there are causes and consequences (ie, effects). The waves of the sea are already in motion. Is it any use to question them? Or is it not more fruitful to calm the waves. To take positive action.

    And therein, the concept of karma and nirvana.

    PS: good thread, and witty title, protean.
    You gave me hyacinths first a year ago;
    They called me the hyacinth girl.
    Yet when we came back, late, from the Hyacinth garden,
    Your arms full, and your hair wet, I could not
    Speak, and my eyes failed, I was neither
    Living nor dead, and I knew nothing,
    Looking into the heart of light, the silence.

    --T.S Eliot, The Wasteland

  4. #4
    unscannable Tigerlily's Avatar
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    Time is a delicate mistress.

  5. #5
    Senior Member ThatsWhatHeSaid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by elfinchilde View Post
    Buddhist philosophy has perhaps a more forward looking view: there are causes and consequences (ie, effects). The waves of the sea are already in motion. Is it any use to question them? Or is it not more fruitful to calm the waves. To take positive action.
    The waves are still.
    Only the mind moves.

  6. #6

    Default

    I guess you have to have a problem
    If you want to invent a contraption
    First you cause a train wreck
    Then you put me in traction

    Well, first came an action
    And then a reaction
    But you can't switch around
    For your own satisfaction
    Well, you put my house down, then got mad
    At my reaction

    Well, in every complicated situation
    Of a human relation
    Makin' sense of it all
    Takes a whole lot a concentration

    Well, you can blame my baby
    For her pregnant ma
    And if there's one of these
    On the order for laws
    It's that you just can't take the effect
    And make it the cause

    Well, you can't take the effect
    And make it the cause
    I didn't rob a bank
    Because you made up a law
    When there's people robbin' Peter
    Don't you blame Paul
    Can't take the effect
    And make it the cause

    I ain't the reason that you gave me no reason to return your call
    You built a house of cards and got shocked when you saw them fall
    Well are you sayin' I'm innocent?
    In fact the reverse
    But if you're heading to the grave
    You don't blame the hearse
    You're like a little girl yellin' at her brother
    'Cause you lost his ball

    Well you keep blamin' me for what you did
    And that ain't all
    The way you clean up a wreck
    Is enough to get one pause
    You seem to forget
    Just how this song started
    I'm reactin' to you because you left me broken-hearted
    See, you just can't take the effect
    And make it the cause

    Can't take the effect
    And make it the cause
    I didn't rob a bank
    Because you made up a law
    Blame people robbin' Peter
    Don't you blame Paul
    Can't take the effect
    And make it the cause
    Everybody have fun tonight. Everybody Wang Chung tonight.

    Johari
    /Nohari

  7. #7
    mrs disregard's Avatar
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    Default

    Is the topic cause and effect
    Or is it the cause and effect
    Of a thread authoring itself?

  8. #8
    no clinkz 'til brooklyn Nocapszy's Avatar
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    Default

    That's not Ti.
    we fukin won boys

  9. #9
    no clinkz 'til brooklyn Nocapszy's Avatar
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    Default

    Cause and effect are relative to one's vantage.
    The timeline does not assign titles.
    we fukin won boys

  10. #10
    a white iris elfinchilde's Avatar
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    Nightning: if you're talking in the singular, then, cause does not = effect.

    But in the pluralistic sense: effect may = cause. Not the same, but another new cause. envision it in the sense of two rulers: one beneath the other. Take odd numbers as cause, even numbers as effect.

    They start out equally.

    But if you shift the second rule, such that its 1 is equivalent to the other's 2, then, that is how the effect of one action becomes the cause of a new action.

    Edahn: waves are always in the mind; more often than not, they generate deed. Which is why karma is given not on thought, but on deeds of one's own volition.

    ie, if you do not act on a cause, then there are no waves. No repercussion; according to the classical rules of karma.

    Concretise it:

    Hitler thinks of Aryan supremacy. But he only holds it as ideas in his head, and does not act upon it. Is there cause? Yes. But are there effects? No.

    Where does effect come in? When he acted upon it and eliminated the Jews.

    That effect was the Holocaust. Greek: holos = completely. kaustos = burnt.

    That effect generated other causes.
    Oscar Schindler, who felt the need to save as many Jews as he could, even though he was German.
    Poland, left with the legacy of Auschwitz, Beltzec, Chelmno, Majdanek, amongst others: kept as memorials for the world, so the world would not forget: even though the people themselves struggle with the daily reminder of such a legacy.
    Anne Frank. A diary. A young girl. The saving of an old chestnut tree. Would a tree cause such worldwide media attention, otherwise?
    The Final Solution to the Jewish Problem. In its actual German: Die Endlosung der Judenfrage. The concept of genocide is articulated for the first time in the world. Spawning: genocides in Rwanda. Bosnia. Cambodia.

    Causes and effects. Causes lead to effects, which become other causes.

    The link is in action. If there is no deed, the cause is ended. The waves of the mind and in the world then become calm.

    but ah. A question then: is the human propensity not for action? How else the concepts of revenge, justice, vendetta?

    Humans. Homo sapiens. Sapiens meaning sentience. Do we truly think, or do we not merely act emotively? And thereby, effects become new causes, and the cycle goes on.
    You gave me hyacinths first a year ago;
    They called me the hyacinth girl.
    Yet when we came back, late, from the Hyacinth garden,
    Your arms full, and your hair wet, I could not
    Speak, and my eyes failed, I was neither
    Living nor dead, and I knew nothing,
    Looking into the heart of light, the silence.

    --T.S Eliot, The Wasteland

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