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  1. #211
    ish red no longer *sad* nightning's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Athenian200 View Post
    Actually, there's a good chance that I would be more merciful in how I applied rules if I were the one applying them. I'd make sure the person knew exactly what they technically deserved, tell them I was taking time to decide what to do, and then after making them anxious, decide to be merciful, and hint that they were on thin ice. Of course, if they made the same mistake more than once, maybe twice, I'd probably be fairly unmerciful.
    If that is true, are you necessary going strictly by the rules? I'm not here to criticize... just wanted to point things out for you to think about. For I know I do this all the time... thinking I'm doing things to be merciful when I'm actually manipulating for my own gain.

  2. #212
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    Quote Originally Posted by Athenian200 View Post
    Power? The idea of having power rather than obeying it didn't even cross my mind.

    It's slightly ironic that you imagine me having power over you in a situation, when it is actually you that has power over me.

    Actually, there's a good chance that I would be more merciful in how I applied rules if I were the one applying them. I'd make sure the person knew exactly what they technically deserved, tell them I was taking time to decide what to do, and then after making them anxious, decide to be merciful, and hint that they were on thin ice. Of course, if they made the same mistake more than once, maybe twice, I'd probably be fairly unmerciful.
    So you would behave like we did. Interesting.
    Last edited by MacGuffin; 04-06-2008 at 06:06 PM. Reason: changed tense

  3. #213
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MacGuffin View Post
    So you would behave like we did. Interesting.
    That's a generalization. There's a difference between strongly condemning an action, publically telling the person what should happen to them, taking a day to decide in order to make them "sweat," then finally sparing them, and what you did.

    You just gave her mercy fairly quickly, and implied that she deserved it. You didn't imply strongly enough that she didn't deserve it, that you were very generous to give it to her, or that she would be unlikely to receive it again. That could lead to a greater sense of entitlement, and disobedience. It's one thing to give people second chances, it's another to let them think that they are entitled to them. If people think they are entitled to second chances, they won't choose their actions carefully the first time.

    I think I was making the point that she didn't deserve it, not that she shouldn't be given it. I knew that you wouldn't actually change your decision after it had been made, so I brought that factor up to point that out.

    But that's the other thread...

    Anyway, I've been thinking about FineLine's reaction again, and I'm wondering if the miscommunication had anything to do with his using a certain amount of Te in his perceptions without realizing he was doing it, while I was very aware of that aspect of it.

    I am beginning to think that the "invisible threads" are indeed Ne, as that's the function most of the people who see these have in common.

  4. #214
    will make your day Carebear's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Athenian200 View Post
    I am beginning to think that the "invisible threads" are indeed Ne, as that's the function most of the people who see these have in common.
    I agree. To me the dots are all there, and connecting them creates a clear and detailed picture. The reason why the threads are invisible to you seems to be that you refuse to draw them in between the dots, instead focusing on why these dots, why this order, who are you to tell me to draw lines, what's your agenda? Or in other words: You're using Ni to find the patterns behind the patterns, questioning the system itself instead of connecting the facts you're presented.

    Nothing wrong with either the Ni or the Ne method, but it does show why Ni-Ne has a tendency to clash a bit, but at the same time can be a powerful combo for solving problems and personal growth.
    I have arms for a fucking reaosn, so come hold me. Then we'll fuvk! Whoooooh! - GZA

  5. #215
    Highly Hollow Wandering's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carebear View Post
    To me the dots are all there, and connecting them creates a clear and detailed picture.
    To me the dots are all there, and connecting them in various ways can create a whole series of clear and detailed pictures. And choosing just one of those pictures is completely arbitrary.

    Hence the need to go looking for the patterns behind the patterns.

  6. #216
    will make your day Carebear's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wandering View Post
    To me the dots are all there, and connecting them in various ways can create a whole series of clear and detailed pictures. And choosing just one of those pictures is completely arbitrary.

    Hence the need to go looking for the patterns behind the patterns.
    Yes, I know. The Ni way. And yes, I see that I can connect the patterns in a whole series of clear and detailed pictures as well, but when the leadership has marked the points with numbers and following the numbers gives me a picture of a bunny, I'm content and think: Oh, so that's what they're aiming for. Huh! Good to know. I might personally think a bunny was a stupid thing to aim for and create something else myself for fun, but I won't be surprised or think "where did that come from?" when the leaders insist on it being a bunny. The lines of the bunny are only invisible if you refuse to draw it.
    I have arms for a fucking reaosn, so come hold me. Then we'll fuvk! Whoooooh! - GZA

  7. #217
    Highly Hollow Wandering's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carebear View Post
    Yes, I know. The Ni way. And yes, I see that I can connect the patterns in a whole series of clear and detailed pictures as well, but when the leadership has marked the points with numbers and following the numbers gives me a picture of a bunny, I'm content and think: Oh, so that's what they're aiming for. Huh! Good to know. I might personally think a bunny was a stupid thing to aim for and create something else myself for fun, but I won't be surprised or think "where did that come from?" when the leaders insist on it being a bunny. The lines of the bunny are only invisible if you refuse to draw it.
    Yeah, I see what you mean. Problem is, Ni doesn't care about the lines themselves: it cares about the lines being in accordance with the background pattern. So saying "just draw the lines in already, and you'll see the bunny" won't make it budge, because sure it can see the bunny, but you have to twist the background pattern to get to the bunny so the bunny is not a valid option to begin with.

    That's where we need Te or Fe to come in and tell Ni "just draw the stupid bunny in for peace's sake or for consistency's sake or whatever!"

    And yes, it's pathetic sometimes.

  8. #218
    will make your day Carebear's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wandering View Post
    That's where we need Te or Fe to come in and tell Ni "just draw the stupid bunny in for peace's sake or for consistency's sake or whatever!"
    Yep, which is where the theory about maturing auxiliary functions comes in, just like FL pointed out.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wandering View Post
    And yes, it's pathetic sometimes.
    Nah, the Ni way is extraordinary in a lot of situations. Saying it's pathetic is like saying a bulldozer is pathetic because it can't peel potatoes.
    I have arms for a fucking reaosn, so come hold me. Then we'll fuvk! Whoooooh! - GZA

  9. #219
    Highly Hollow Wandering's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carebear View Post
    Saying it's pathetic is like saying a bulldozer is pathetic because it can't peel potatoes.
    Well... It is

    (Me, perfectionist? Naaaah )

  10. #220
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carebear View Post
    Nah, the Ni way is extraordinary in a lot of situations. Saying it's pathetic is like saying a bulldozer is pathetic because it can't peel potatoes.
    If my bulldozer can't peel potatoes, I have no use for it.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

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