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  1. #31
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    Default Flying Blind

    Quote Originally Posted by GZA View Post
    I've never done any drug (unless you count alcohol), but I really don't think anyone who hasn't done drugs has any right to decide if they are valid spiritual experiences, or if they are good experiences in any light, or anything about them at all. I don't want to be rude... but if you havn't done those drugs, shut the fuck up and don't decide what they do or don't do and how valid it is.

    The thing about spirituality is that it is entirely subjective. Everyone decides what is spiritual for them, and what isn't. What transcends regular existance, what brings a sense of epiphany is unique to every person, and therefor if someone says they had a spiritual experience on whatever drug or doing whatever activity or whatever reason, take there word for it. The only way it isn't true is if the person has misidentified it (which probably doesn't happen much... I think you kind of know a spiritual experience when you see one), if the person is simply lying, or if they are brainwashed (would would require them to later realize soemthing they thought was a spiritual experience actually wasn't).

    I have had several experiences I would say were spiritual in nature. The first time I listened to Jimi Hendrix was spiritual -it took everything to a whole new level, it was an eye opener for me in many ways I'm not even sure how to describe, and that moment is responsible for a lot that has followed in my life and my sense of self. Music is general is spiritual to me. A Love Supreme by John Coltrane has given me spiritual like experiences, meditation type things, many times. Booze has given me one spiritual experience where I really connected with people (mainly a guy I've been friends with for several years but got detatched from for a while) and it made me realize just how important friendship is and how great and complex every person is. Camping in the Georgian Bay Islands was spiritual for me for the beauty and freedom it gave. Sometimes, just the right mix of natural beauty... something that leaves you in shock and awe because of it's sheer power (in my cases, Hendrix, Coltrane, Georgian Bay, ect) and reflection and rumination can make a big difference to you and have a massive influence on your thoughts and attitudes towards things. As someone said (Ross, I think), they are experiences that totally single handedly elevate your sense of self and reveal things about yourself you did not know or repressed.

    Its in the eye of the beholder as much or more than anything else I can possibly think of. If someone says something gave them a sense of enlightenment and of transcending their normal place in reality, don't question it, because that is something only they know for sure, and they do know for sure.
    The purpose of spirituality is not to develop the ego.

    Spirituality presumes you have a strong and healthy and developed ego before you start on the spiritual path.

    If you are an adult, say over the age of 22 years, and your ego has not yet matured, it is more appropriate to seek therapy rather than starting on the spiritual path.

    A mature ego is a prerequisite for the spiritual path.

    You might say you are not qualified to start on the spiritual path until your ego has matured.

    This is because a mature ego will be able to discern, be able to taste, the fruits of a spiritual path - otherwise you are flying blind.

    Victor.

  2. #32
    Resident Snot-Nose GZA's Avatar
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    It's true that 90% of users don't become addicted - 90% can hang up the phone.

    Victor.
    Did you know that psychadelics are actually used to treat addiction sometimes? Its because of the spiritual experiences the people may have? Some of them also literally reformat your brains chemical inputs to be different from how they were when you were addicted, thus more or less ending the addiction. Ever hear dof Iboga? Its a root shrub that is used to treat opiate addiction in many places, often effectively. I would be shocked if someone got addicted to things that may actually interfere with addiction... unless they got addicted so frequently that the use of those plants was like an addiction in itself

  3. #33
    Resident Snot-Nose GZA's Avatar
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    How come everyone in this thread experienced spiritual experiences when they were young, in an existential crisis, ect? Spirituality is about growth, is it not? I disagree with your idea that spirituality can only take place after maturity.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by GZA View Post
    I don't want to be rude... but if you havn't done those drugs, shut the fuck up and don't decide what they do or don't do and how valid it is.
    I don't mind you being rude but talking with you is an important part of my spiritual path.

    Victor.

  5. #35
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ThatsWhatHeSaid View Post
    I think spirituality (and hopefully dissonance'll back me up on this) is about getting in touch with the real you. Who are you? What are you? What is this thing I call "me?" Is there such a thing? How can you even put it into words without sacrificing something material? You can't..
    I would *not* classify myself as a "spiritual" person, but I could also see how to certain people and in regards to certain definitions, I could definitely be classified as being "spiritual". Regardless, for me, a "spiritual" experience is not so much characterized by self-discovery as much as it is characterized by feelings of "sublime" connection. Self-discovery is a thought driven process for me, whereas "spiritual" experiences are circumstantially derived and emotionally driven.

    Basically, I don't happen to "spiritual" experiences, rather "spiritual" experiences happen to me.
    `
    'Cause you can't handle me...

    "A lie is a lie even if everyone believes it. The truth is the truth even if nobody believes it." - David Stevens

    "That that is, is. That that is not, is not. Is that it? It is."

    Veritatem dies aperit

    Ride si sapis

    Intelligentle sparkles

  6. #36
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    Default Ripeness

    Quote Originally Posted by GZA View Post
    How come everyone in this thread experienced spiritual experiences when they were young, in an existential crisis, ect? Spirituality is about growth, is it not? I disagree with your idea that spirituality can only take place after maturity.
    A mature ego enables us to be in touch with reality and be in touch with poetry or spirituality and, most important to be able to move between them at will.

    Otherwise we flap around like a sail in a storm.

    A mature ego enables reality to be informed by spirituality and it enables spirituality to be informed by reality.

    A mature ego takes about 22 years to develop - and, interestly, it takes about 22 years for our physical brain to fully grow.

    So it is a mistake of an immature ego to start on the spiritual path before our ego reaches ripeness.

    There is a time for every purpose under heaven - including spirituality.

    Victor.

  7. #37
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    Do you have spiritual experiences? What makes you so sure about all of this?

    And, like Captain Chick, I don't consider myself a spiritual person for the most part, but I know I could be described as spiritual in some ways.

    I do think there are spiritual experiences though and that they could really happen to anyone at pretty much any age and that they are different and unique for everyone.

  8. #38
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    Default The Will

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainChick
    180089
    Basically, I don't happen to "spiritual" experiences, rather "spiritual" experiences happen to me.
    This is true. When we let go our ego, we are no long directing our experience, rather our experiences happen to us.

    However it is unwise to let go our ego if we can't get back at will.

    And will is a function of a strong, mature ego.

    Our ego is essential for the spiritual life.

    Without our ego we are like a ship without a rudder.

    Victor.

  9. #39
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    Default Music

    Quote Originally Posted by GZA View Post
    Do you have spiritual experiences? What makes you so sure about all of this?
    This is interesting - you have made a comment about my tone - that is, I am speaking in the tone of surety.

    This is because I am speaking to you in a light to medium trance.

    In a trance I leave some of my cognitive faculties and just say what I see.

    This has the advantage of discovering new things.

    But most important is that I can return to my full cognitive faculties at will and criticize what I have just seen.

    You might say I am speaking to you as a seer.

    And as you are probably not in trance, you are able to criticize what I see.

    So you and I are point and counterpoint.

    Quite like a musical composition.

    Victor.

  10. #40
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    I'm speachless... It may well be impossible to answer that coherently.

    So what do you think of your posts once you leave these trances and read your post in full cognitive sense?

    You still dodged my initial question though, by the way.

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