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  1. #11
    Senior Member ThatsWhatHeSaid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheBeatGoesOn View Post
    Spirituality in general is fake, IMO.
    Maybe your definition of spiritual is too rigid? I think of spiritual as anything that puts you "in touch," usually with yourself, which helps you connect to other people or things.

    I'm not saying that drugs are the only or even the preferred gateway, but I think they can be a good way to glimpse what's out there and whet one's appetite. As Alan Watts said about psychedelics: once you've got the message, hang up the phone.

  2. #12
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
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    Default Rotten Fruit

    Quote Originally Posted by TheBeatGoesOn View Post
    Spirituality in general is fake, IMO.
    Surprisingly, I agree with you. Mainly because to appear to be spiritual gives social kudos.

    Really the only way to see the quality of a spiritual life is to see the fruits.

    And alas, the fruit of narcotics is rotten.

    Victor.

  3. #13
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    Default Transcending Ourselves

    Quote Originally Posted by ThatsWhatHeSaid View Post
    Maybe your definition of spiritual is too rigid? I think of spiritual as anything that puts you "in touch," usually with yourself, which helps you connect to other people or things.

    I'm not saying that drugs are the only or even the preferred gateway, but I think they can be a good way to glimpse what's out there and whet one's appetite. As Alan Watts said about psychedelics: once you've got the message, hang up the phone.
    I appreciate you thinking about this.

    And I find it hard to think about.

    Perhaps the spiritual life is not about oneself - in particular, not about the part of oneself we call the ego.

    We spend about 22 years sometimes painfully developing our ego - and so naturally it is one of our treasured possessions.

    But it seems to me that the spiritual life is about transcending our ego - certainly not replacing it or diminishing it - but taking it for granted and moving on to a world larger than ourselves.

    So perhaps spirituality is not about feeling better but being bigger. I don't know.

    Victor.

  4. #14
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    Default And...

    Quote Originally Posted by ThatsWhatHeSaid View Post
    As Alan Watts said about psychedelics: once you've got the message, hang up the phone.
    And when can hang up, you don't want to.

    And when you want to hang up, you can't.

    Victor.

  5. #15
    Senior Member aeon's Avatar
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    Victor:

    Humanity's history with using plant-based entheogens as part of ritualized shamanic experience is long indeed.

    Would you tell those people that their spiritual experience was fake?


    wondering,
    Ian

  6. #16
    Senior Member aeon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    And when can hang up, you don't want to.

    And when you want to hang up, you can't.
    Victor, psychedelics demonstrate no addictive characteristic.


    cheers,
    Ian

  7. #17
    Senior Member millerm277's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    And when can hang up, you don't want to.

    And when you want to hang up, you can't.

    Victor.
    Not entirely, many drugs are not addictive. Two that I can think of off the top of my head are LSD and Marijuana. LSD is non-addictive, and Marijuana is less addictive than caffeine.
    I-95%, S-84%, T-89%, P-84%

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheBeatGoesOn View Post
    Spirituality in general is fake, IMO.
    Word.

  9. #19
    `~~Philosoflying~~` SillySapienne's Avatar
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    Drug induced, fear induced, sleep-deprived induced, what have you...If a person experiences a "spiritual" moment, to and for them, that moment was experienced, and is therefore valid.

    I've had plenty of "spiritual" experiences in my life, some major, and some more minor in nature, some drug induced, while most have not been.

    When I was 11 I went to the Grand Canyon for a camping trip, and was blown away by its enormity and beauty, so much so I began to cry. Needless to say, I was *not* intoxicated then.

    When I was 17 I was in Hawaii, and I met the most fantastic guy with whom I really connected to, and one day we spent the entire afternoon walking around a Chinese cemetery and made out *inside* of a banyon tree, it was the first time I had ever connected with a guy, and I would definitely classify it as a "spiritual" experience.

    That same trip, I tried MDMA for the first time, and for the first time in my then 17 years of life, I had actually bonded with my sister who at the time I more or less *hated*. That night marks a pivotal moment not only in my life, but in what would become our new founded relationship as sisters. Was it drug induced? Yes. Does that matter?? No.

    I have had psilocybin induced "spiritual" experieces as well, one time I was tripping with my best friend in an old cemetery in Boulder, Colorado. It was a beautiful crisp spring night, and we were laying on the grass looking at the stars, I recall being overwhelmed by the seemingly inherent wonder and beauty within and amongst nature, and there was nothing "fake" or "phony" about this experience.

    Honestly, I can list twenty more non-drug induced such moments, but I'll spare your eyes.

    If you experience a moment of wonder, regardless of why or how, that moment is real, and should be regarded as such.
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  10. #20
    Senior Member Grayscale's Avatar
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    unless someone can quantify what "spiritual" means, exactly, then im inclined to say all experiences are equally "spiritual"

    as it seems to me, though, if you're aiming for validity, spirituality is not a description you want to gravitate towards.

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