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  1. #51
    Klingon Warrior Princess Patches's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Viridian View Post
    I'm no expert, but isn't consent sometimes implied? Or do you always ask, in no uncertain terms, if you can engage in intercourse with your spouse? I've read something about that recently...
    Yes, if it's a spouse and such, it is implied. Those are pretty clear-cut situations. I'm referring to Elfboy's scenarios. If it's a fuzzy line like that, or even remotely shady... why can't you just NOT fuck someone under those circumstances? Just wait for a situation in which the other person is very clearly into it, without needing to be manipulated, coerced, etc.
    “Everybody has a secret world inside of them. All of the people of the world, I mean everybody. No matter how dull and boring they are on the outside, inside
    them they've all got unimaginable, magnificent, wonderful, stupid, amazing worlds. Not just one world. Hundreds of them. Thousands maybe.” -Neil Gaiman

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  2. #52
    Senior Member Viridian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patches View Post
    Yes, if it's a spouse and such, it is implied. Those are pretty clear-cut situations. I'm referring to Elfboy's scenarios. If it's a fuzzy line like that, or even remotely shady... why can't you just NOT fuck someone under those circumstances? Just wait for a situation in which the other person is very clearly into it, without needing to be manipulated, coerced, etc.
    I understand... I think he was just pondering definitions, since this is the Philosophy subforum and not the Relationships one.

  3. #53
    Superwoman Red Herring's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elfboy View Post
    would these hypothetical situations be considered rape?

    1) you hypnotize someone into having sex with you
    As others have said, it doesn't work that way. If it did, yes. Also, of course, a doctor raping a patient while that peron is under the influence of an anaesthetic, etc.

    2) you get someone drunk so that you can manipulate them to have sex with you
    Not a gentleman move but as long as you didn't slip anything into their drink and they drank voluntarily, No

    3) you have sex with someone controversially younger than you, but they consent
    What the hell does controversially younger mean? If the other person is too young and immature to really consent or there is a strong power imbalance, it's at least a grey zone. Maturity varies, but there is a reason for the existence of statutory rape. One could discuss at which precise age to draw the line, but that's difficult.
    4) you manipulate someone into having sex with you when you know they'll regret it later.
    Nope. Asshole move but not rape.

    5) you threaten to withdraw support for an individual if they don't have sex with you (not support that they need, like a job, money for living expenses or healthcare, but some other type of support that they can survive without)
    No

    6) you threaten to withdraw support that the individual does need (such as those listed above)
    Yes. Well or at least extorsion. Punishable either way and rightly so.
    7) you make your spouse have sex with you after they have been witholding it from you
    Hell yeah. What is this, the 19th century???

    8) someone has consented to have sex with you. you're in the middle of things and they say "stop!" and you don't
    Yes. Should be obvious. Not a nice situation and a good reason to know what you are doing before you do it, but definitely yes.


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  4. #54
    Habitual Fi LineStepper JocktheMotie's Avatar
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  5. #55
    Nips away your dignity Fluffywolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JocktheMotie View Post
    Awesome.
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  6. #56
    Senior Member swordpath's Avatar
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    If it's not completely consensual, then it's rape. That easy.

  7. #57
    Nips away your dignity Fluffywolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ignite View Post
    If it's not completely consensual, then it's rape. That easy.
    What if there is implied spoken consent, but an implicative unspoken unconsent?

    I mean, I have to agree with Jock that there are possible intricities beyond that of the normal spectrum that have to be taken into consideration.

    Jock's post also reminds me of something that is apparantly common but everytime I hear of it it infuriates me.

    Suppose guy is depressed, girl attempts to comfort, but doesn't help. Guy says, if you don't have sex with me I will kill myself. Girl agrees, they have sex. Personally, I could kill the guy, but is it rape? I mean, the girl can still walk away, guy kills himself, everyone gets the better of it! But she doesn't, so in a sense, it is consential. But there is an implication! Rape or not, that is the question.
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  8. #58
    Senior Member swordpath's Avatar
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    That's manipulated compliance and doesn't fall under the category of "completely consensual" that I referred to.

  9. #59
    Senior Member swordpath's Avatar
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    However, legally, I don't know how they would look at a scenario such as that. Rape cases are hard to prove. If that scenario happened as you told, but then said female decided to cry rape to law enforcement after the fact... Well, I just don't know. I'm pretty sure that since she technically gave consent, the guy would be in the clear (regardless of the fact that her consent was out of pity/being manipulated). However, these things happening are common. Especially in the setting where booze is present. People will do things, maybe in a blacked out state of inebriation and appear to be fully "on board" with the moment, but then somehow over the next day or two, it turns into someone feeling like they've taken advantage of.

  10. #60
    Certified Sausage Smoker Elfboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ignite View Post
    However, legally, I don't know how they would look at a scenario such as that. Rape cases are hard to prove. If that scenario happened as you told, but then said female decided to cry rape to law enforcement after the fact... Well, I just don't know. I'm pretty sure that since she technically gave consent, the guy would be in the clear (regardless of the fact that her consent was out of pity/being manipulated). However, these things happening are common. Especially in the setting where booze is present. People will do things, maybe in a blacked out state of inebriation and appear to be fully "on board" with the moment, but then somehow over the next day or two, it turns into someone feeling like they've taken advantage of.
    it's true, that's what's so terrible about sex crimes.
    1) they're obviously traumatic for the victim
    2) they're hard to prove, so a lot of people get away
    3) lots of them are misunderstandings, so lots of innocent people end up in jail
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