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  1. #111
    Nerd King Usurper Edgar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CzeCze View Post
    I'm sorry that happened to you Edgar. Did he hurt you? I have the number of a good counselor if you need it.
    Would you make that joke to a woman? Doubt it, you hypocrite sexist.

    This disturbs me since that infamous questionnaire years ago to middle schoolers showed a majority thinking a girl owed guy sex on a date if he spent so much money on the date
    The girl wouldn't owe the guy sex, because selling or bartering for sex is illegal. However, if a girl allows a guy to "spend so much money" on her without the intent of putting out sometime in the future, she's being a bit of a twat.
    Listen to me, baby, you got to understand, you're old enough to learn the makings of a man.

  2. #112
    Senior Member Simi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CzeCze View Post
    Also, was your friend a guy? Because if I were teaching sex ed and some guy in my class kept interrupting me about 'would this legally be rape? would this? how about his?' I would probably be thinking 'holy shit, future sex offender is asking me for tips'. Also, your teacher is not a legal expert and most grown men educators haven't really had training in how to discuss rape/sexual abuse/etc. with students, everything gets very fuzzy. I think in this new millenium there is more sensitivity (?) and awareness (?) about this that they try to teach in schools (?) but for all the hypersexualization of youth in popular media, I think there's still very little dialogue around this.

    My friend was a girl, and where I live there are habits of Sex Ed teachers going way too far, I believe that about three years ago there was a Sex Ed teacher smoking pot with all the students and sleeping around with them until the point she got fired.
    Or, maybe that wasn't a local story, I can't really remember the entire back story I just remember that my teacher had information about it and my class would always prompt him into talking about it.
    Keep in mind, most of his Health classes weren't like that, I just happened to be placed in the class that all the major stoners were in, it'd be like being in a Health class with the Freaks from Freaks & Geeks if you have seen that show.

    Anyway, back to the main point, the girl just thought it was funny to think up disturbing questions and ask the teacher. o.O
    Your epidermis is showing. <3

  3. #113
    Dreaming the life onemoretime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elfboy View Post
    would these hypothetical situations be considered rape?

    1) you hypnotize someone into having sex with you - yes
    2) you get someone drunk so that you can manipulate them to have sex with you yes
    3) you have sex with someone controversially younger than you, but they consent no, but still ought to be illegal under a particular age. Statutory rape is a legal fiction created by the usefulness of categorizing it as an "age of consent"
    4) you manipulate someone into having sex with you when you know they'll regret it later. yes
    5) you threaten to withdraw support for an individual if they don't have sex with you (not support that they need, like a job, money for living expenses or healthcare, but some other type of support that they can survive without) yes
    6) you threaten to withdraw support that the individual does need (such as those listed above) yes
    7) you make your spouse have sex with you after they have been witholding it from you yes
    8) someone has consented to have sex with you. you're in the middle of things and they say "stop!" and you don't yes
    Coercion or deceit leads to a lack of consent. However, I do believe there should be two categories of illegal sexual relations: molestation, referring to those cases where there is no clear consent, but no use of physical force (a misdemeanor punishable by up to 180 days in jail, a fine of $5,000, and restitution to the victim); and rape or sexual assault, referring to those cases where the victim had been physically coerced into sexual activity (a felony punishable by up to 30 years in prison, a fine of $500,000, and restitution to the victim).

  4. #114
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    ^^^
    You said yes to everything?

  5. #115
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CzeCze View Post
    Also, was your friend a guy? Because if I were teaching sex ed and some guy in my class kept interrupting me about 'would this legally be rape? would this? how about his?' I would probably be thinking 'holy shit, future sex offender is asking me for tips'.
    Ah, but if it was a chick it would all be okidoki, yeah?

    Quote Originally Posted by CzeCze View Post
    And seriously "liking" rape? That's kind of an oxy-moron. I don't think anyone gets accused of loving being mugged or run over by cars, but I'm sure in the 11 pages of this thread other people have pointed that out.
    That would be a contradiction, but that's not what the question was about. The question was if someone began to enjoy it during the act, if, by way of enjoyment (And therefore possibly wanting it) it stops being rape. So that would not be the same as liking rape, which is illogical. Perhaps we can use the word want instead of the word like. If someone was forced into a sexual act they did not consent to, resisted at first, but then changed their mind and decided they wanted it and stopped resisting, would it be rape?

    For the law to be effective, I think it should be considered rape in that scenario, but that doesn't mean it is in a more psychological or ethical way. One also wonders if the "rape" would be reported or admitted if the victim decided they didn't mind after all, so the legality might become moot.

    It's a very interesting question.
    Go to sleep, iguana.


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  6. #116
    RETIRED CzeCze's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edgar View Post
    Would you make that joke to a woman? Doubt it, you hypocrite sexist.
    I doubt a woman would go trolling by posting what you did, but if you were a woman and you did that I would also refer you to the competent counselor that I know.

    Feel better snookums?

    The girl wouldn't owe the guy sex, because selling or bartering for sex is illegal. However, if a girl allows a guy to "spend so much money" on her without the intent of putting out sometime in the future, she's being a bit of a twat.
    Ah, thanks for pearls of dating wisdom. I'm sure the PUA forums have ways around that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    Ah, but if it was a chick it would all be okidoki, yeah?
    If it were a girl it would change the context tremendously.

    Which was exactly the case in Simi's anecdote.

    That would be a contradiction, but that's not what the question was about. The question was if someone began to enjoy it during the act, if, by way of enjoyment (And therefore possibly wanting it) it stops being rape. So that would not be the same as liking rape, which is illogical. Perhaps we can use the word want instead of the word like. If someone was forced into a sexual act they did not consent to, resisted at first, but then changed their mind and decided they wanted it and stopped resisting, would it be rape?

    For the law to be effective, I think it should be considered rape in that scenario, but that doesn't mean it is in a more psychological or ethical way. One also wonders if the "rape" would be reported or admitted if the victim decided they didn't mind after all, so the legality might become moot.

    It's a very interesting question.
    I haven't read the OP, I generally avoid threads like this, and I do not think it as interesting question at all because the concept of consent and forcing yourself against someone is very clear cut .

    It is question however that will get bandied about even legally in a rape fostering culture. Seriously even the premise (it started out rape, but then she liked it, so I'm not guilty) is a classic rapist's defense.

    I understand wanting to discuss the 'question' in a 'purely philosophical way' but it still plays into bs created by a rape culture. Also, these questions have been around a while. The law itself is not really equipped to handle social complexities and the law is pretty biased against women when it comes to prosecuting or even identifying rape.

    The very old school 'Sisterhood Is Powerful' Or even I Never Call It Rape which is also considered kinda old school already covered that quoted scenario in depth but decades later the law and the biases of (mostly male) judges that skews their judgements hasn't really changed much IMHO.

    That these same questions ("Is it rape?") are seriously pondered socially and legally decades later when I think it's pretty clear cut what constitutes 'rape' is endemic to a rape culture.
    “If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.” ― Oscar Wilde

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  7. #117
    Dreaming the life onemoretime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MacGuffin View Post
    ^^^
    You said yes to everything?
    Yup. There's a vast distinction in perception based on the various power dynamics of the situation. If either of the parties feels like they have been exploited by the other, then something is wrong about that.

  8. #118
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CzeCze View Post
    If it were a girl it would change the context tremendously.

    Which was exactly the case in Simi's anecdote.
    Meh.


    Quote Originally Posted by CzeCze View Post
    I haven't read the OP, I generally avoid threads like this, and I do not think it as interesting question at all because the concept of consent and forcing yourself against someone is very clear cut .
    It's easy to say something is obvious. It's harder to prove it.

    Quote Originally Posted by CzeCze View Post
    It is question however that will get bandied about even legally in a rape fostering culture. Seriously even the premise (it started out rape, but then she liked it, so I'm not guilty) is a classic rapist's defense.
    The fact that a rapist might use it as a defense doesn't mean it is beyond consideration. That is fallacious reasoning.

    Quote Originally Posted by CzeCze View Post
    I understand wanting to discuss the 'question' in a 'purely philosophical way' but it still plays into bs created by a rape culture. Also, these questions have been around a while. The law itself is not really equipped to handle social complexities and the law is pretty biased against women when it comes to prosecuting or even identifying rape.

    The very old school 'Sisterhood Is Powerful' Or even I Never Call It Rape which is also considered kinda old school already covered that quoted scenario in depth but decades later the law and the biases of (mostly male) judges that skews their judgements hasn't really changed much IMHO.

    That these same questions ("Is it rape?") are seriously pondered socially and legally decades later when I think it's pretty clear cut what constitutes 'rape' is endemic to a rape culture.
    I take this to mean that fear and offense have disabled critical thought.
    Go to sleep, iguana.


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  9. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jonnyboy View Post
    Man rape is even funnier, I approve.
    Rape jokes aren't funny, unless they're forced.

  10. #120
    Nerd King Usurper Edgar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CzeCze View Post
    I doubt a woman would go trolling by posting what you did
    There you go with your sexism again

    Ah, thanks for pearls of dating wisdom. I'm sure the PUA forums have ways around that.
    Do you disagree with my sentiments? Or just dodging the issue?

    Anyway, never had any interest in PUA. Quality is more important than quantity, as far as I'm concerned.
    Listen to me, baby, you got to understand, you're old enough to learn the makings of a man.

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