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  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by LittleV View Post
    They coincide; sympathy is a portion of empathy. Empathy contains both cognitive and affective properties: perspective-taking (understanding another’s state), empathic concern (the desire to relieve another’s pain) and personal distress (feeling another’s pain). Sympathy goes under ‘empathic concern’ because it works in often motivating one to help after noticing another’s distress – but the person may not be experiencing the same emotions. Scholars refer to empathy as the main (elaborate) framework.
    Please! Please! Please! If someone is traumatised and in pain, it does no good for a helper to feel the same as them. If they felt the same, they wouldn't be able to help them.

    Also it is sheer vanity of those who experience sympathy to think they can be empathetic without training and practice.

    For sympathy is intuitive, and empathy is counter-intuitive.

  2. #42
    Just a note... LittleV's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mole View Post
    Please! Please! Please! If someone is traumatised and in pain, it does no good for a helper to feel the same as them. If they felt the same, they wouldn't be able to help them.

    Also it is sheer vanity of those who experience sympathy to think they can be empathetic without training and practice.

    For sympathy is intuitive, and empathy is counter-intuitive.
    Haha, sure. The pain felt is subjective; it could be the same pain in a different body (so not the same sensitivity) or merely 'responsive distress' - as some like to call it. I'm making an empathy scale for my thesis... so yes, empathy can get better or worse through experience - but like with most things - we each have our own range of capabilities.

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by LittleV View Post
    Haha, sure. The pain felt is subjective; it could be the same pain in a different body (so not the same sensitivity) or merely 'responsive distress' - as some like to call it. I'm making an empathy scale for my thesis... so yes, empathy can get better or worse through experience - but like with most things - we each have our own range of capabilities.
    Almost all are unable to empathise, but because they can sympathise, they think they can empathise. This is sheer vanity compounded by ignorance.

  4. #44
    Just a note... LittleV's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mole View Post
    Almost all are unable to empathise, but because they can sympathise, they think they can empathise. This is sheer vanity compounded by ignorance.
    It's called mirror neurons, and it's not exact. Empathy does not mean that one person can precisely feel how another is feeling--or else they would be genetic clones. It is the synthesis of biology and situations. I'm sorry you think people who research and teach empathy are vain and ignorant, but I'd appreciate it if you understood the literature (and people) better before lowering the quality of conversations through name-calling. Nobody has ever proven anything about it being about the exact emotion, nor did I say anything more than what has been thoroughly researched... it's "responsive." Empathy is just a word humans conjured up to explain human phenomena in the case of relating to others; we do it as to have a way to classify things in order to work together. I'd respect your argument more if you 1) knew what I was saying before assuming, 2) provided scientific examples or sound logic on how to improve the theory, or 3) left the insults at the door. I don't know where you're from or what your function is in society, but if you talk to people like that, you're not going to make things easier for yourself. Remember: your judgments of others say more about you than it does about those you judge. And this would be true, even more so, if you do not believe in responsive/personal distress. Otherwise, I wish you well... even though you have no idea where I'm coming from. For me to do the work I do, believe you me, I know what it's like to deal with those with true empathy issues.

  5. #45
    Earth Exalted Thursday's Avatar
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    Empathy is flattering, yet sympathy can turn or be taken as condescending.
    I N V I C T U S

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by LittleV View Post
    It's called mirror neurons, and it's not exact. Empathy does not mean that one person can precisely feel how another is feeling--or else they would be genetic clones. It is the synthesis of biology and situations. I'm sorry you think people who research and teach empathy are vain and ignorant, but I'd appreciate it if you understood the literature (and people) better before lowering the quality of conversations through name-calling. Nobody has ever proven anything about it being about the exact emotion, nor did I say anything more than what has been thoroughly researched... it's "responsive." Empathy is just a word humans conjured up to explain human phenomena in the case of relating to others; we do it as to have a way to classify things in order to work together. I'd respect your argument more if you 1) knew what I was saying before assuming, 2) provided scientific examples or sound logic on how to improve the theory, or 3) left the insults at the door. I don't know where you're from or what your function is in society, but if you talk to people like that, you're not going to make things easier for yourself. Remember: your judgments of others say more about you than it does about those you judge. And this would be true, even more so, if you do not believe in responsive/personal distress. Otherwise, I wish you well... even though you have no idea where I'm coming from. For me to do the work I do, believe you me, I know what it's like to deal with those with true empathy issues.
    Pehaps we have a misunderstanding.

    I am saying that when we empathise, we know what the sufferer is feeling, but we don't feel it ourselves.

    Sympathy on the other hand feels the same as the other.

    The Ancient Greeks made the distinction between sympathy and empathy. And this distinction remains the same today, although quite naturally, with no knowledge of Ancient Greek, and a meretricious New Age, we tend to confuse sympathy and empathy.

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by fecaleagle

    So I think sympathy should be more highly regarded since empathy doesn't even entail helping others but rather simply understanding where they are coming from. But I never hear people being praised for being sympathetic, or being told they should strive to become more sympathetic.

    I guess what I'm wondering is why it seems that society values empathy so much and sympathy just doesn't matter as much. Empathetic people are more likely to be very selfish, but sympathetic people are more inclined to being selfless, no?
    Because people dont want solutions to their issues, they just want others to agree with them. Short answer. I've got cancer and I feel an enormous amount of self pity right now, fuck chemo treatments and getting well again, I want my 15mins of fame being the poor cancer patient.

  8. #48

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    Quote Originally Posted by WhoCares View Post
    Because people dont want solutions to their issues, they just want others to agree with them.
    I think you're right.

    Short answer. I've got cancer and I feel an enormous amount of self pity right now, fuck chemo treatments and getting well again, I want my 15mins of fame being the poor cancer patient.
    If that's true, then I marvel at your candor.

    For 15-minutes of fame and the will to fight...
    http://www.43things.com/

  9. #49
    Senior Member ceecee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WhoCares View Post
    Because people dont want solutions to their issues, they just want others to agree with them. Short answer. I've got cancer and I feel an enormous amount of self pity right now, fuck chemo treatments and getting well again, I want my 15mins of fame being the poor cancer patient.
    Yes. Or they want someone to listen and get pissed when that person offers suggestions or...omg...a workable solution. No, no, that's just crazy talk. I'm sympathetic because for the most part. I can't be empathetic. I can't know what they are feeling and in my mind, it's it really useful to have another person fall apart in a crisis?
    I like to rock n' roll all night and *part* of every day. I usually have errands... I can only rock from like 1-3.

  10. #50
    Just a note... LittleV's Avatar
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    When I was 8 years old, I saw a special ed. kid being bullied as some boys were throwing his backpack back and forth, as he was trying to run after it. I felt an overwhelming amount of pain and tried to run in there, totally neglecting my well-being, wanting to get into that fight (my friend grabbed me by the hand so I wouldn't get in trouble as well, and a teacher came to stop it). Like any trait (empathy is a state as well as trait), empathy lies on a continuum... and it should generally be the NF's (INFJ's especially) who would be higher on it, on average. I wouldn't expect 'Thinkers' to typically understand because they tend to trust only what they see and are capable of feeling (although intuitives would be more open to things they haven't experienced). Mirror neurons exist. We aren't accurate to the point where we could feel the exact emotion that a set of genetics+situations could feel... but some people can get pretty darn close to getting it. That's why some people can't be around negativity due to internalization. Anyway, that moment changed my life, as I came home and made sure I'd never forget the first instance that I knew the type of girl I was. Fearlessly sensitive.

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