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Personal Values, Morality, Principles, and Practicality.

F

figsfiggyfigs

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Well, Victoria...

Absolutely we can make decisions without the absence of values. More likely, id driven biological imperative decisions and possibly some ego tamped ones.

In essence, your opening post sets up the premise of the destruction of the super-ego.

I see primitive biological decision making, existing on a different plane of awareness. I'm referring to advanced, day-to-day decision making, those that surpasses the 'self-preservation level' of processing and action taking. Where self-awareness, and worth are involved; where the ego is engaged.

You're right, in regards to my OP. I was just questioning the possibility of us existing with the absence of morality, value, and principles, and it how it would be like to live in a world without them.
 

rav3n

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I see primitive biological decision making, existing on a different plane of awareness. I'm referring to advanced, day-to-day decision making, those that surpasses the 'self-preservation level' of processing and action taking. Where self-awareness, and worth are involved; where the ego is engaged.

You're right, in regards to my OP. I was just questioning the possibility of us existing with the absence of morality, value, and principles, and it how it would be like to live in a world without them.
I'd guess that environment would define actions. If the environment has devolved to the level of necessities becoming scarce, hence the byproduct of competition becoming fierce, then id would probably dominate. If the environment has an abundance of necessities where there's leisure time to consider easing workload, then ego would be engaged more often. But then, I have to argue greed and domination, which exists today, even with limiting frameworks.

Bottom line, we're so fucked as a species! :laugh:
 

Lark

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You're right, in regards to my OP. I was just questioning the possibility of us existing with the absence of morality, value, and principles, and what it would be like to live in a world without them.

Like I say I dont believe its possible, you can be either conscious or unconscious of the values which are guiding you or which you are exhibiting in your life. There is a choice, its one of the ironies of the cultural baggage of modern consumerism in that it encourages a contradictory view, I think because it abhors the idea of sacrifice, that you can consume without really focusing upon the choices involved, any choice will necessarily involve foregoing another or alternative choice.
 

Rasofy

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This got me thinking about the book The Selfish Gene! Has anyone read it?
Thing is, the effectiveness of strategies in any group dynamic game is valued according to the other ''players'' strategy. If there was a community in which every human was a sociopath, it probably wouldn't be a very sucessful one and it would end as Jenaphor described. The conclusion is that a society in which everybody has moral values would be more sucessful than a society in which no one has moral values.
BUT it gets tricky! Thing is, in a society where about 97% are non-sociopaths, this behaviour might be very rewarding.
So, in the end, it's relative. Sorry J's.:D
 

Rasofy

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I like using macro examples but I think they can easily be applied in micro situations.
 

FunnyDigestion

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It's interesting to think about... most basic morality arises logically from socially beneficent behavior, so there's a baseline of morality that is more-or-less inherently practical, in that it ensures the well-being of "you & your fellows". & then there's a lot of corollary stuff arising from that-- or arising from associations generated by correlative imagery / behavior to that basic morality... some of this becomes broadly societal, but the higher levels of moral refinement I think are more particular to individuals, defining their inner worlds, & ultimately the variations in their behavior..

I think abstract cultural morality, in order not to become harmful, needs to be kept simple as well as periodically renewed somehow... throughout history you can observe that as cultures become more complex, & specifically as societies are stratified into different levels of privilege stemming from social function, which eventually become fixed & dependent on one's place of birth, the morality gets skewed toward abstraction-- usually there develop classes of people who dedicate themselves to systematizing / doctrinizing morality, & then it becomes more about systems philosophy & politics... in short, I think 'morality' as an abstraction-- sometimes in individuals, but particularly in societies (& I usually see societies to an extent as macrocosms of individuals)-- is harmful the more complicated & self-enclosed, hence absolute, it is.

/thesis
 

Jonny

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Morals, or values, are like projections of our inherent and learned preferences onto a more abstract and universal plane. We take our very subjective past experiences and the emotion that accompanies them, and reflect upon them (often there is a natural transition rather than a conscious effort) so that we may generalize them into a system of 'right' and 'wrong'. This system has at its foundation a well of emotion, whose relative depths determine the degree of conviction with which we adhere to and spread said values.

The topic to which you alluded in your original post is the conflict between these values and other desires. That is, what if we wish to partake in certain activities which are in conflict with our moral system? To this question, I would venture to guess that the degree to which such a system hinders practicality is the extent that such a system is impervious to change. What is practical is subjective, and dependent upon one's desires. To say that a moral system is impractical is to say that such a system does not adequately account for certain desires, and thus causes an individual to act in a way that is not in his own best interest (self interest, in this case, encompassing the entirety of his desires).


**gah, I'm done for now with this. I usually write more completely, but I'm having trouble expressing my thoughts today. I'll just let what I have so far be a springboard to others.**
 

Magic Poriferan

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If your morality hinders practicality, you're doin' it wrong.

That's why I'm a utilitarian.

This got me thinking about the book The Selfish Gene! Has anyone read it?
Thing is, the effectiveness of strategies in any group dynamic game is valued according to the other ''players'' strategy. If there was a community in which every human was a sociopath, it probably wouldn't be a very sucessful one and it would end as Jenaphor described. The conclusion is that a society in which everybody has moral values would be more sucessful than a society in which no one has moral values.
BUT it gets tricky! Thing is, in a society where about 97% are non-sociopaths, this behaviour might be very rewarding.
So, in the end, it's relative. Sorry J's.:D

Sociopaths are essentially parasites.
 
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