User Tag List

First 45678 Last

Results 51 to 60 of 130

  1. #51
    nee andante bechimo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Posts
    8,022

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Saturned View Post
    But we as the outsiders know that there is no love there and ultimately there is no good either.

    Unless one likes being a brain washed minion.
    Is this reality or is it just perception based on subjective values of love/hate, autonomy/authority?

  2. #52
    Senior Member lowtech redneck's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    MBTI
    INTP
    Posts
    3,705

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Jenaphor View Post
    Imagine living in a society where hate is revered and love is quashed. Are you both 100% certain that you'd still feel the same way?
    Interesting thought experiment (and kinda reminds me of attempts to portray 'hellish' societies in the Planscape game), but I think humans are simply too physically weak (particularly as children) to perpetuate the species without copious amounts of love (and the cooperation it brings), even if only for a select few-the Hobbesian Jungle is itself a thought experiment that simply can't exist in light of human characteristics, much like utopias at the opposite extreme.

  3. #53
    Anew Leaf
    Guest

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Jenaphor View Post
    Is this reality or is it just perception based on subjective values of love/hate, autonomy/authority?
    Oh snap!

    It is an opinion that I form based on my own perception from living in this world viewing that world as a kind of horrorfest. So in the ultimate objective viewpoint it is a subjective view based on what I think and feel and experience.

    I think there is something inside all of us though, call it your soul or conscience, or whatever... that sees what love and hate truly are. It is up to us to have the courage to follow it if needed, or ignore it as we choose.

    This is extremely intriguing, Jen. I have been trying to come up with a real world society to use as an example, and I am encountering some interesting ideas in trying to do so. I first thought of Nazi germany because that just seems to be the "go to" country for this kind of discussion. So then I widened my parameters further and thought of China. I dated a guy who was from Shanghai and he told me lots of interesting stories about his father growing up in China. The story that popped out most was when his father spoke out against the government as a student and was promptly shipped off for 3 years to go work on the railroads. I look at that and think, good for you guy! speak your mind! Because he is doing something I, as an American, admire. However, from his culture's point of view, he was being rather stupid. He endangered himself and his family for a few ideas. This isn't the same as the love/hate we are talking about, but I think a parallel could be drawn. (Perhaps not just by me in super Ne mode bouncing from idea to idea.)

    Still pondering and thinking.

  4. #54
    nee andante bechimo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Posts
    8,022

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by lowtech redneck View Post
    Interesting thought experiment (and kinda reminds me of attempts to portray 'hellish' societies in the Planscape game), but I think humans are simply too physically weak (particularly as children) to perpetuate the species without copious amounts of love (and the cooperation it brings), even if only for a select few-the Hobbesian Jungle is itself a thought experiment that simply can't exist in light of human characteristics, much like utopias at the opposite extreme.
    It is a thought experiment and one IMO is worth the effort.

    But thousands if not millions of children are raised without love, whether in foster homes, biological or extended family units. And yet, they too survive and some thrive.

  5. #55
    Permabanned
    Join Date
    May 2009
    MBTI
    ISFP
    Enneagram
    6w7 sx
    Socionics
    SEE Fi
    Posts
    25,301

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by lowtech redneck View Post
    Interesting thought experiment (and kinda reminds me of attempts to portray 'hellish' societies in the Planscape game), but I think humans are simply too physically weak (particularly as children) to perpetuate the species without copious amounts of love (and the cooperation it brings), even if only for a select few-the Hobbesian Jungle is itself a thought experiment that simply can't exist in light of human characteristics, much like utopias at the opposite extreme.
    Yes, that's what I was saying. We physically survive because of love. It's biological, not a matter of perception.

  6. #56
    Permabanned
    Join Date
    May 2009
    MBTI
    ISFP
    Enneagram
    6w7 sx
    Socionics
    SEE Fi
    Posts
    25,301

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Jenaphor View Post
    It is a thought experiment and one IMO is worth the effort.

    But thousands if not millions of children are raised without love, whether in foster homes, biological or extended family units. And yet, they too survive and some thrive.
    Foster homes and extended family units raise these children as a product of love, not hate.

    Hate would say "welp, let's throw them outside to starve or freeze."

    Just because they might not experience "love" in the deepest parental sense, it is still the vibe of love in humanity, not hate, that even suggests we create foster homes for orphaned children.

  7. #57
    A window to the soul
    Guest

    Default

    Hate destroys us from the inside out. Love sets us free.

  8. #58
    nee andante bechimo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Posts
    8,022

    Default

    I question perception of emotions in general, particularly the stronger ones. Are we viewing emotions in a less evolved manner when we tag good/bad, right and wrong to them, especially when considering how all emotions are natural components of being human? If we view them as manifestations of being human, where application and process are more important than the subjective perception of each emotion, wouldn't this be a more balanced way to proceed, one of acceptance?

    Anyways, shit that wanders through my head!

  9. #59
    Permabanned
    Join Date
    May 2009
    MBTI
    ISFP
    Enneagram
    6w7 sx
    Socionics
    SEE Fi
    Posts
    25,301

    Default

    Pehaps you're just not giving enough credence to the ability of emotion to actually contribute in a sound, objective way to our survival. I don't think it's "less evolved" I think it's denial of part of yourself, part of what allows you to function holistically. Equal to someone who says "logic is unnecessary." Many studies have been conducted on how positive emotion contributes to not only mental health, but also to physical health, and broadening intellectual horizons.

    Not unusual in someone with inferior Fi to downplay importance of emotion, but I don't think there's anything truly logical about doing so.

    It's like saying we need sight but not hearing.

  10. #60
    nee andante bechimo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Posts
    8,022

    Default

    marm, you're completely missing my points. Reread my post again without bias.

Similar Threads

  1. Which is more empathetic, Fi or Fe?
    By Doctorjuice in forum The Bonfire
    Replies: 64
    Last Post: 05-05-2012, 09:44 AM
  2. Technology or Nature: Which is more beautiful/appealing?
    By Athenian200 in forum The Bonfire
    Replies: 114
    Last Post: 03-05-2011, 10:00 AM
  3. Replies: 25
    Last Post: 08-21-2010, 05:51 PM
  4. Is it better to be fear and hated or loved and accepted?
    By yenom in forum General Psychology
    Replies: 22
    Last Post: 08-14-2010, 07:52 PM
  5. Falsification or comparison, which is more suitable?
    By coberst in forum Philosophy and Spirituality
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 04-14-2009, 01:34 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO