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View Poll Results: Are you significant? (see OP for question)

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  • Yes, I am significant, my existence is not pure chance

    13 40.63%
  • No - My creation was not pure chance, but I am still insignificant

    5 15.63%
  • No - I am the result of chaos theory at work

    11 34.38%
  • I do not exist

    4 12.50%
  • Other (please post)

    4 12.50%
Multiple Choice Poll.
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Results 21 to 28 of 28

  1. #21
    Senior Member logan235711's Avatar
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    I picked all of the answers because I can see each one of them working, and possibly at the same time, and even something else. My P is too high these days :p

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by ptgatsby View Post
    Hmm, just out of curiousity...

    If there is such a thing as fate/destiny/predestination, why would your life become more significant? That is to say, if you are predestined, are you not also predestined to have a child (or not) and continue on the predestination path? Why does this imply significance?
    I would be load bearing for the other events I kick start by my existance and that would make me more significant than if destiny don't exist. If destiny don't exist if things can be random - my presence wouldn't be essential. I could exist or not and trigger various events but I wouldn't be missing in the programming because as such doesn't exist.

    You share far less dependencies that say, the stars, the moon, the earth... all of which would be equally predestined...
    But isn't it only our limited perception of life which makes us assume that? If all things are preprogrammed, then all things, all beings, big/tiny etc. would have an equal value because all events would be dependant on each other and be a part of that program - in that picture, the movement of a tiny stone falling to the ground would have just as much significance as the moon - simply because it is part of the line/lines of events.

    In theory, we don't know if a small seemingly insignificant event on earth, in the big picture, perhaps triggers more events than the sun, moon and stars. With our limited perception and the nature laws we live under - we only perceive it that way. Could be that in a higher dimension, an existant/non existant being living under other nature laws, would be able to perceive it differently. Similar to respectively my cats limited perception of a visit to a vet and mine.

    My cats perception: Park, cat carrier, car drive, injection needle, vet = insignificant (but mean).
    My perception: Infectious diseases, protection = significant (and good).

    Edited to add:
    In theory, we don't know if a small seemingly insignificant event on earth, in the big picture, perhaps triggers more events than the sun, moon and stars.
    Doesn't the word *chaos* just describe everything which we don't understand?
    Last edited by Park; 05-12-2007 at 11:29 AM.
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  3. #23
    Senior Member niffer's Avatar
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    ...I need this explained to me. Also, what is the line between what is significant and what isn't?
    sparkly sparkly rainbow excretions

    Quote Originally Posted by ThatGirl View Post
    holy shit am I a feeler?
    if you like my avatar, it's because i took it myself! : D

  4. #24
    Senior Member cafe's Avatar
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    I don't think my existence is the product of blind chance, but I don't consider myself particularly significant in the great scheme of things. My own great-great-grandchildren will probably not even know what my name is let alone anything about me.
    “There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.”
    ~ John Rogers

  5. #25
    Lallygag Moderator Geoff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ptgatsby View Post
    Hmm, just out of curiousity...

    If there is such a thing as fate/destiny/predestination, why would your life become more significant? That is to say, if you are predestined, are you not also predestined to have a child (or not) and continue on the predestination path? Why does this imply significance? You share far less dependencies that say, the stars, the moon, the earth... all of which would be equally predestined...
    That's an excellent question.... I feel "significant" and don't believe in predestination, but do get a feeling that the Universe applies a "karma" test to us. In summary, our actions come back to haunt us, even if there is no direct causal link with the end result.

    It is this universal karma that leads me to feel significant.. the universe cares enough... in some sense...to assess me for better or worse. Yes I know that is not based on anything logical, it's a gut instinct (borne out by limited experience).

    -Geoff

  6. #26
    darkened dreams labyrinthine's Avatar
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    I'm significant to myself. Beyond that, I can't really say. It does appear to be an inclination for humans to desire to be significant. I suppose it is that desire that drives each individual to survive? In creatures there is a drive to desire to exist. Those with the strongest desire tend to survive. Can't say that makes anyone significant, but it is interesting in relationship to either scenario. It's either deeply ironic or intuitive.
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  7. #27
    Senior Member ptgatsby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Park
    I would be load bearing for the other events I kick start by my existance and that would make me more significant than if destiny don't exist. If destiny don't exist if things can be random - my presence wouldn't be essential. I could exist or not and trigger various events but I wouldn't be missing in the programming because as such doesn't exist.
    Hmmm, interesting. I always think of significance as a measurement of magnitude (normally in terms of change) - but I don't see why it couldn't be turned around and said that a small change now does add up to a big change... this would be larger with any form of destiny...

    But isn't it only our limited perception of life which makes us assume that? If all things are preprogrammed, then all things, all beings, big/tiny etc. would have an equal value because all events would be dependant on each other and be a part of that program - in that picture, the movement of a tiny stone falling to the ground would have just as much significance as the moon - simply because it is part of the line/lines of events.
    Good point... though I guess this means that you are insignificant because everything is insignificant... yet significant because everything depends on you. Kind of like - you would be significant if you could change things, but aren't because you can't! Destiny seems to imply both at the same time. Interesting.

    Doesn't the word *chaos* just describe everything which we don't understand?
    Though this may be a bit nitpicky, in this chaos is more about small variations in the early conditions that lead to huge differences in the future. Having said that, human life is an example of this - if several million years ago, life was created from a series of chaotic events (events that could not have been anticipated from the original conditions), and humans came from that (chaotic? maybe) and humans manage to go around destroying stars in a few thousand years... then that is a perfect example of how the "designer" of the universe would be frustrated with random chaotic events. Some small variation and essentially a random occurance caused an incredible shift in the "natural" (expected) universe.

    If you take that view, it's possible that humans are significant and random! However, I feel that at this time, we can't be seen that way... maybe when we span a few planets... a few galaxies, clusters... We just don't have an impact on existance, in the scope of things, regardless of how we feel right now.


    Quote Originally Posted by Geoff View Post
    That's an excellent question.... I feel "significant" and don't believe in predestination, but do get a feeling that the Universe applies a "karma" test to us. In summary, our actions come back to haunt us, even if there is no direct causal link with the end result.

    It is this universal karma that leads me to feel significant.. the universe cares enough... in some sense...to assess me for better or worse. Yes I know that is not based on anything logical, it's a gut instinct (borne out by limited experience).
    Hmmm, interesting. I disagree... but I do agree on karma as a general concept. Interesting differences in how things are approached.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Geoff View Post
    Think of all this. Are you as a result significant? Or is this simply emergence/chaos theory at work? Are you simply the emergence out of the chaos of a million billion striving organisms in random effect? Does your existence despite all the odds signify something?

    My answer : I must be. All those cumulative generations created me, I must be significant. Surely. Aren't I?
    I think my existence is completely insignificant and due to some event that started a chain of causality. This event may be random or not. Hence, my existence is tied to the existence of every other living organism because of common causal factors.

    In any case, my perception of freedom is an illusion that is part of the causal chain. If all variables were known, it would be possible to predict exactly my behavior.

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