What does it mean to die?

[Night]

I have had the same thoughts, the same comparisons to sleep, etc. There's a reason that sleep is seen as a mini-death and that death is sometimes referred to as sleep. I used to have trouble when I was young going to sleep, because I did not know if I would wake up again.

To your point, life existed for billions of years before our notice. Why then should we care if it persists for billions after?

I have a hard time saying I believe in specific details that I cannot confirm are true, even if they are palatable. Religious beliefs seem to be that way for me. I use patterns in religious systems to help me determine how to live and to help me define my hopes and joys, but the reality is that I don't know what is true and what is not in terms of the specifics; death will provide a final answer that unfortunately at that point in time will no longer have meaning. All that matters to me now is how I live now, not what happens after death. (I don't even understand people who can focus on eternal reward as a motivator, and so loudly proclaim something that might or might not be true.) When I get there, then I'll be subject to what it is, and if I'm still conscious, then it'll be something new to work through.

Living in the now is a hard screw to turn. It's in our nature to seek patterns in existence as to improve and protect our present quality of our survival.

If you get there before I do, let me know the answer Jennifer.

 

[Night]

Thats not what quantum theorists say. they say there are a lot of possibilities but only so much are true at a given level of dimension

I'm aware, entropie. It was a joke.

 

[entropie]

You should be concerned with some more worldly problemns again there over the Ocean. This has gotten way to far out with all that quantum physics and life after death, this is so far beyond us still, we are totally not living in reality no more.

Last time I started a discussion about nuclear waste on perC they even tried to connect that to quantum physics and how the latter one is the solution to the former one. That's so way out, come back home spacepilot

 

[Night]

You should be concerned with some more worldly problemns again there over the Ocean. This has gotten way to far out with all that quantum physics and life after death, this is so far beyond us still, we are totally not living in reality no more.

Who says we're not? Why are these exclusive terms? This thread is merely an exploration of belief about what happens after we die. I don't recall mentioning an in-thread mandate to offer opinion at the expense of more practical ideologies.

 

[Oaky]

We go back to the rounding thought of the consciousness which causes us to experience what we perceive. Experience is always played within every part of our lives including sleep. With such, losing consciousness would be losing the ability to experience and losing the ability to experience cannot be conjured up within us as we have never experienced 'not experiencing'. Losing the present is losing the future and losing the future would be losing the flow of time and with such, time would either cease to exist or perhaps restart. If restarting, perhaps we relive our lives again from the beginning.
Others who take the outside stance cannot be 100% sure they are correct as they do not know what lies beyond their own conscious and therefore can only assume the derived conclusions they solely believe in. One who believes others exist in the same way he/she does when each is to his/her own universe by one's own perceptions

 

[Nicodemus]

What would make you change your belief?

Evidence suggesting that it is wrong.

What has led you to it?

Plausibility. I am presented with basically two possible solutions to the mind-body problem: monism, dualism. Neuroscience tells us that the mind is constantly being sustained and altered by and in the brain. Thus it follows that, if the brain stops working, the mind stops being, thereby confirming monism. Dualists hold that the mind (or soul) lives on after death; and although I think that there are very basal, very simple reasons for humans to believe in such concepts, I have yet to see evidence supporting dualism (holy books are neither evidence nor proof).

 

[entropie]

Who says we're not? Why are these exclusive terms? This thread is merely an exploration of belief about what happens after we die. I don't recall mentioning an in-thread mandate to offer opinion at the expense of more practical ideologies.

Well the difference is if you ask your question on an american forum you get 90% of the people at least thinking about it, while when you'ld post it on a german forum you could be happy to get even an answer. I am not saying that should ever change, but we both can learn that way. The one can become more idealistic and the other one more realistic, you know ? I tho only lately have the feeling many peeps over the Ocean dont even want realism, but mere want to live in a Dreamworld which they created for yourself.

I am still figuring this out and assuming a lot, it's just only a concerning development. When I made nuclear waste a topic on perC people answered with things they thought were facts that were either falsely communicated thru the media, a serious lack in their education (tho they claimed they went to elite universities) or a self-induced dreamworld that had nothing to do with reality.

So before I can really discuss with you about an afterlife, I'ld need to know on which level we are debating

 

[Anew Leaf]

Sooner or later it happens to us all. Time runs out. We reach the end. Life comes to a sudden and irreversible point.

While the means differ, the conclusion is always the same - all of us will one day die.

So, what does human death mean to you? Is death simply the logical conclusion to a physical beginning - the inevitable expression of being gifted with life, or is it something else? Something more holistic - perhaps the chance to experience singularity with a creator, or for resurrection in a context entirely distinct from your previous life?

Maybe death is not necessarily oppositional to life. Maybe life and death are just instrinsic to what it means to be an organism. Death as energy reconfiguring itself towards equilibrium.


What do you believe?

I do not fear death, or what comes afterwards. I fear the 5 minutes that will lead up to my death. Which means what I actually fear is life.

What do I believe?

I believe that nothing is for certain, no matter how strongly I may believe in something. Maybe when I die it will all fade to black and I will cease to exist. Maybe I will die and awake in the land of ponies. Maybe I will die and I will reappear in what I would consider heaven. Who knows but those who have gone before us.

Based on my own life experiences, however, this is what I currently believe: My physical self will eventually cease to operate, thus freeing my soul. The good parts of my soul will continue on to whatever heaven actually is. There I will be reunited with friends and family.

What I would really like after this, is to be able to explore the universe for eternity. I would love to see planets up close and get to really understand how huge this universe is. I want to learn about physics, and biology, and paint sunsets on planets. I want to see how rocks are made beneath the earth, and I want to watch time pass from a perspective outside time.

That's just me.

 

[nolla]

The problem with that theory is: it makes you very uncertain of saying anything else tho aswell. Because outside of your perception anything is possible then and if you operate within such given parameters, you go crazy cause then you have nothing left you can think of as being real. Tho that may be a great thing to do for a pghilosopher on cocaine, I think for the common people like me that is just too much to *not* take

I don't know... to me the normal options seem so depressive. I don't actually believe that my consciousness will survive death, since it seems connected to this body in many ways. But some sort of a consciousness might survive. Or if not survive, then reappear someway. It would be weird if consciousness appeared only once and then disappeared, considering the range of theoretical possibilities there are.

 

[entropie]

I don't know... to me the normal options seem so depressive. I don't actually believe that my consciousness will survive death, since it seems connected to this body in many ways. But some sort of a consciousness might survive. Or if not survive, then reappear someway. It would be weird if consciousness appeared only once and then disappeared, considering the range of theoretical possibilities there are.

I agree with you 1000%. Imo its neither the right way to say after death your life ends nor is it the right way to believe in an afterlife. I'ld like to concentrate on the existing things which are the things I can actively change and one of them is that I can make myself immortal by passing on my knowledge to others like my children or by just writing a book. Dont get me wrong I dont mean that in the "build me a statue" kinda way, I mean that people who fear that their existence could just end thru death have no clue how much power in passing on their being they have on a daily basis

 

[nolla]

Dont get me wrong I dont mean that in the "build me a statue" kinda way, I mean that people who fear that their existence could just end thru death have no clue how much power and influence they have over others on a daily basis

That's true. The amount of ripple that one person does during their lifetime must be incredible. It'd be nice if someone could demonstrate this somehow. Like making a simulation of some digital creatures interacting with each other. Then create the same simulation taking one of them away and see what happens. AND, to bring quantum theory back here, if there are particles that are synchronized across the universe, then you could actually create galaxies without even knowing it.

 

[entropie]

That's true. The amount of ripple that one person does during their lifetime must be incredible. It'd be nice if someone could demonstrate this somehow. Like making a simulation of some digital creatures interacting with each other. Then create the same simulation taking one of them away and see what happens. AND, to bring quantum theory back here, if there are particles that are synchronized across the universe, then you could actually create galaxies without even knowing it.

Ya and that would be a real life application. To summarize in vectors so much information would need you to build a supercomputer. You could buildz the quantum computer.

In the end it maybe boils down to a more personal problem of mine. I have fortified and warded off my thoughts against too many ideas and possibilities because when I let the thoughts in and really start thinking about it, they influence my ability to lead a normal life and care for my daily chores so much that I'll prolly start drinking again. Real thing is I like to think about endless possibilities, I like philosophy in fact I love it. But I need stability in my life and if that is on cost of one or too supertheorethical speculative thoughts about the universe that is what it takes. :/

 

[nolla]

In the end it maybe boils down to a more personal problem of mine. I have fortified and warded off my thoughts against too many ideas and possibilities because when I let the thoughts in and really start thinking about it, they influence my ability to lead a normal life and care for my daily chores so much that I'll prolly start drinking again. Real thing is I like to think about endless possibilities, I like philosophy in fact I love it. But I need stability in my life and if that is on cost of one or too supertheorethical speculative thoughts about the universe that is what it takes. :/

That's quite interesting. My ethical questions can have a similar effect on me. I know that when I focus on what is right, it lessens my capability to function in the real world. This could be a real good way to see whether a person is NF or NT.

 

[entropie]

indeed !

Hey invented a wheel by the way in an afterlife thread ! Ne ftw !

What do you do on saturday ? Can I pick you up at 8 and we go eat a pizza ?

 

[Qlip]

I'm pretty familiar with the different symbolisms of death and the different beliefs surround it. Some of them are very poetical, some are very simple and uninspired. It just seems kind of ass backward to invest to much energy into thinking about it while I'm still alive.

 

[nolla]

Can I pick you up at 8 and we go eat a pizza ?

Well, as long as we are back by 10am. I'm going to a wedding.

 

[nolla]

It just seems kind of ass backward to invest to much energy into thinking about it while I'm still alive.

Most people live as if they don't know they will die. Why would someone not live an adventure if they think they will die and there is no afterlife? People do some boring shit and then they die. I see no logic in not thinking death at least to get the priorities in order.

 

[Santosha]

Once energy is created, it can not "cease to exist". It transfers, changes form.. but it does not stop. The body itself is energy. Matter=condenced energy. It disintigrates after death and eventually is recycled into a multitude of forms within existence. Your energy will continue to exist once you die.. the question is will your consciousness follow. If consciousness can only exist inside the brain, then probably not. But they are working on a few studies based on a theory that consciousness does indeed exist outside the brain. IF we can prove that consciousness exists outside the brain.. the death concept is only physical. I believe this will eventually be proven.

 

[King sns]

Once energy is created, it can not "cease to exist". It transfers, changes form.. but it does not stop. The body itself is energy. Matter=condenced energy. It disintigrates after death and eventually is recycled into a multitude of forms within existence. Your energy will continue to exist once you die.. the question is will your consciousness follow. If consciousness can only exist inside the brain, then probably not. But they are working on a few studies based on a theory that consciousness does indeed exist outside the brain. IF we can prove that consciousness exists outside the brain.. the odds look much better =D

I believe this, except, I'm not sure what happens to that energy. Any multiple things can happen. We have a few guesses, but I'm not sure if we've even found the correct answer yet. Or maybe there are many possibilities.

 

[Oaky]

But they are working on a few studies based on a theory that consciousness does indeed exist outside the brain. IF we can prove that consciousness exists outside the brain.. the death concept is only physical. I believe this will eventually be proven.

Perhaps we'll find out before they do.