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  1. #51
    Senior Member knight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    I sense a Flatliners experiment coming on...
    he was in the military. he pulled a the string for his parachute and it did not open and second time he was riding in a jeep and someone drove over a mine.

  2. #52
    Senior Member Santosha's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jenaphor View Post
    Even after we flatline, our brains are still alive. It takes two minutes before parts of our brain start to shut down, until an hour later. It's no surprise considering how delicate brain chemistry is, that individuals would become delusional.

    Consider delusional individuals like paranoid schizophrenics with neurochemical imbalances. Those delusions appear to be real according to the individuals experiencing them but they're not, according to observers.

    But that wasn't the point I was trying to make. Our consciousness includes preprogrammed biological imperatives. Once those imperatives cease to exist, does each person as a concept, cease to exist? Does Huxley, as Huxley is defined by his consciousness right now, cease to exist? IMO, you do.

    Of course this is assuming that our consciousness continues post death of our physical body (which I don't believe but are considering possibilities).
    Your getting into consciousness definitions. THe closest we've been able to define consciousness is by cognitive processing, that consciousness is a result of something similar to serial processing of the brain. Again, they have been unable to PROVE this though. By any normal definition of the concept.. no...if consciousness is defined by the state of a persons cognitive process, the continuous flow of ideas and feelings, mental responsiveness and awareness, etc. always emphasizing the mind-body link.. then no. But if we reach a point that we can prove memory and consciousness exist outside the brain, it will be re-defined. Consciousness can also be defined as self awareness, self identity. How might we distinguish ourselves from something else outside the body.. I could only speculate.

    THe actual point of physical death has also not been proven.. but I agree that the body could undergo brain chemical changes, etc. right as this is happening. TO clarify, I do not understand how someone could observe things going on in an operating room while UNCONSCIOUSS, with brain waves flattened, eyes and ears blocked, accurately. Yet cases like this are emerging.
    Man suffers only because he takes seriously what the gods made for fun - Watts

  3. #53
    Ginkgo
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    , , , ;@;e , , , Y---M--M- , , ,

    Majestic text giraffe spots two headed turtle prowling in the tall tall grass. Majestic text giraffe lives to see another day.

  4. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by wildcat View Post
    You make the best questions, Night.


    To know is to see.
    Sight is subjective.

    It is therefore the I exists only as an object of the mind.
    We see a return (= reflection) of our mind. It is all we see.


    Does succession move?
    It stands still.
    What moves?
    Nothing moves.
    To see is to imagine.

    Does the I die?
    It never was.

    An object does not see an object.
    I see life is a singularity.
    It does not border.
    It does not have a beginning or an end.

    A singularity.

    Is a wisdom of a person subject to the person?
    The wisdom of a person is subject to wisdom.

    Is a beauty of a flower subject to the flower?
    The beauty of a flower is subject to beauty.

    Wisdom returns to wisdom?
    Beauty returns to beauty?
    Life returns to life?

    A singularity does not return.
    It never left.

    Is there life after death?
    A singularity does not after.
    The difference between lines and dots. Thoughtful post, as usual wildcat.

    You know, I wonder what would happen if everyone made up whatever they wanted and thoroughly believed in it, rather than curtailing themselves at the thought of the unknown or the commonly taught. How happy we would all be. Yet, that may not lead to fulfillment in this life, which is what many decide to invest in, even subordinated by the treat of judgment and afterlife.

  5. #55
    Senior Member wildcat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ginkgo View Post
    The difference between lines and dots. Thoughtful post, as usual wildcat.

    You know, I wonder what would happen if everyone made up whatever they wanted and thoroughly believed in it, rather than curtailing themselves at the thought of the unknown or the commonly taught. How happy we would all be. Yet, that may not lead to fulfillment in this life, which is what many decide to invest in, even subordinated by the treat of judgment and afterlife.
    A wise point, Ginkgo.

    The society would have to be altogether different.
    Only you can change society.
    A paradox.

  6. #56
    Senior Member Saslou's Avatar
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    To die is just a natural progression .. I'm more interested in what happens after we 'die'.
    “I made you take time to look at what I saw and when you took time to really notice my flower, you hung all your associations with flowers on my flower and you write about my flower as if I think and see what you think and see—and I don't.”
    ― Georgia O'Keeffe

  7. #57
    Ruler of the Stars Asterion's Avatar
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    We die to pass on our energy to the future. Why do you think we have fossil fuels? Just think about that.

    We live for the same reason. We live for the future, the more effort you put towards that goal, the better you feel. That's why we like to master things, that's why we create and build and dream. So many famous quotes tell you to go off like a firework, make an impact and an impression, but nobody ever seems to pay any attention to the rich soil beneath us that supports everything. Without nutrient rich soil, there's no trees, no greens, no life and finally, no fireworks.

    So, we live to continue a wave of energy. That makes me think that a lot of actions we take and thoughts we generate are actually anomalous and due to random interferences.
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  8. #58
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    I was non-existent for a hundred billion years. Then some chemicals and genes came together in a fortuitous combination and I currently exist. But in a couple decades or so the chemicals and genes will wind down and disperse, and I'll go back to being what I was before: non-existent. That's my natural state, and there's no big deal about returning to it.

    I figure I was lucky enough to have a 70-year window to wake up and have some fun. So I try to make the most of it. But I was non-existent for a hundred billion years beforehand, and I'll be non-existent for a hundred billion years afterwards. C'est la vie.

  9. #59
    Senior Member copperfish17's Avatar
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    Well... to me, to die means that my one go at life is over. I don't believe in afterlife, which actually makes me all the more eager to live a good, healthy life.
    Enneagram: 5w4 5-9-2 (5w4 9w1 2w1) sp/so

    "Do not argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience." - Greg King
    The worst mistake people make in political arguments is assuming that the other side is not trying to do the right thing. This simple oversight makes productive conversation nearly impossible.

  10. #60
    Post Human Post Qlip's Avatar
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    We die all the time. You can say a snapshot of a person in a specific place and a specific time is a different entity than the snapshot of the same person in a different place and time. Different atoms, different brainshape. The only thing holds up the illusion of life is the narrative, not everything changes all at one time. Kind of the Ship of Theseus paradox, but even harder to defend the object in question as being the 'same'.

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