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  1. #61
    Senior Member Nicodemus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zang View Post
    I believe one has to be quite dull to avoid all the elements of the cosmological argument in my words. If you require me to point these out in the form premise 1, premise 2, sub-conclusion and conclusion then I'm sorry, but this is something you really should be capable of parsing on your own. Does your mind truly get all fogged up when you read metaphor? Is it really too much to ask that you apply your mind when your shown all the elements of something assembled in an atypical form... excuse me for not catering to the INTP minority, who with just a bit of work could find the sustenance for their Ti to devour.
    Also, still not a 10.

  2. #62
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zang View Post
    I believe one has to be quite dull to avoid all the elements of the cosmological argument in my words. If you require me to point these out in the form premise 1, premise 2, sub-conclusion and conclusion then I'm sorry, but this is something you really should be capable of parsing on your own. Does your mind truly get all fogged up when you read metaphor? Is it really too much to ask that you apply your mind when your shown all the elements of something assembled in an atypical form... excuse me for not catering to the INTP minority, who with just a bit of work could find the sustenance for their Ti to devour.
    I definitely must have missed your conclusion that God exists. You concluded that one must "invoke" God for this or that purpose. But the idea that "God exists" stands as a pure belief. The Cosmological Argument is or was intended to establish the existence of God (or a First Cause), not the necessity of invoking God.

    Kant found it necessary to invoke God. But he did not rely on the Cosmological argument, he demolished it.

    Here's a question for you: is the First Cause of the universe a Formal, Efficient, or Final Cause?
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  3. #63
    Senior Member Zangetshumody's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mal12345 View Post
    I definitely must have missed your conclusion that God exists. You concluded that one must "invoke" God for this or that purpose. But the idea that "God exists" stands as a pure belief. The Cosmological Argument is or was intended to establish the existence of God (or a First Cause), not the necessity of invoking God.

    Kant found it necessary to invoke God. But he did not rely on the Cosmological argument, he demolished it.

    Here's a question for you: is the First Cause of the universe a Formal, Efficient, or Final Cause?
    Your words show you are short of understanding my last response to you. Since you seem unable to make sense of words, I see no sense in suppling you with them any further.
    Escape powerful genjitsu by averting your gaze from the eyes.

  4. #64
    Senior Member Zangetshumody's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nicodemus View Post
    Also, still not a 10.
    Then what am I?
    Escape powerful genjitsu by averting your gaze from the eyes.

  5. #65
    Senior Member Santosha's Avatar
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    I'm not offering this up as proof, but this is one example that has influenced the Human Consciousness Project and the AWARE study. I am highly interested in the results of this study, and believe they should be out sometime next year.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZM81dxIx6Ow
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ksvGaonRqjw

    http://www.nourfoundation.com/events...s-Project.html
    Man suffers only because he takes seriously what the gods made for fun - Watts

  6. #66
    Feline Member kelric's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zang View Post
    Then what am I?


    Come on. You start this thread with an "irrefutable" claim to one of the most unanswerable (and boringly repeated) questions of all time, blather on about how right you are while ignoring any criticism, except to respond by calling those who disagree with you "fogged up", and "short of understanding". Even if you're truly interested in a debate (which I doubt), condescending pseudo-intellectual rants aren't the way to get a good conversation going.

    *yawn*
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  7. #67
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zang View Post
    Your words show you are short of understanding my last response to you. Since you seem unable to make sense of words, I see no sense in suppling you with them any further.
    You asked if there were any questions. Apparently you are assuming God somehow wielded Efficient Causality when creating the universe. But if that were the case, nobody would require any concept of ends because only Efficient Causality, that is, of means in the absence of ends, would exist.

    Efficient Causality, by itself, cannot explain the growth of a single blade of grass, much less the creation of an entire universe which itself grew from a "seed."
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  8. #68
    The Eighth Colour Octarine's Avatar
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    There is a big difference between 'irrefutable' and unfalsifiable.

  9. #69
    Dreaming the life onemoretime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zang View Post
    Where there is little point to this if you willfully ignore your strongest opposing argument and grapple with the straw men. And look at that, just about everything abstract happens to be male...
    A straw man isn't male. "Man" is in its increasingly-archaic neuter sense.

  10. #70
    No Cigar Litvyak's Avatar
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    Zang, you've made me open my eyes.
    After reading Pascal and Aquinas, I thought I've seen it all: yet the novelty and irrefutability of your arguments shattered my worldview in a moment of time.

    Thank you for leading me to Jesus Christ.

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