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Of what use is philosophy?

Lark

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But what is philosophy if all it is can be contained within never ending arguments and tomes of waffle? Is this some strange form of religion and hence not necessarily needing to be relevant to have worth or is the point of philosophy to merely drone on contained within it's own realms unrelated to all it pretends to discover?

You know Nietzsche is really dead.
 

Thalassa

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Although religion has had more to do with the development of both mathematics and critical thinking that you probably realise.

I agree that religion was the beginning of critical thinking. Thing is, we've moved past it now. Just because elementary school is a good and valid place for children to go first, it doesn't mean you should stay there and never move forward into more complex levels of thought.
 

Xander

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Purposes philosophy could serve if implemented correctly.
#1 Better analysis of information on a daily basis. Consider advertising.
#2 Better use of resources in public and private sectors, mainly by keeping focus on what the intended outcome is and ensuring that everything is harmonious with that.
#3 Improved education. Not just regurgitation and repetition but actual understanding or the foundation upon which it can be built.

High ideals maybe. Perhaps it's just me but I take offence when wisdom is used to make people feel big or when it degenerates into simply maintaining it's own existence regardless of how warped it has become. If philosophy is a science then perhaps it is now absorbed as one individual proposed to me, if it is an art however then perhaps it no longer seeks truth, merely reason to continue.
 

ThatsWhatHeSaid

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I've come across 2 different kinds of philosophy styles, for lack of awesome term. The first seems to be mostly an exercise in mental masturbation. Most of the stuff I've read on ethics feels like that. On the other hand, I've found some philosophers who try to tackle questions of purpose and meaning like Nietzsche and Schopenhauer. I dig those guys and their stuff is much more relevant to my life.
 

rav3n

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I agree that religion was the beginning of critical thinking. Thing is, we've moved past it now. Just because elementary school is a good and valid place for children to go first, it doesn't mean you should stay there and never move forward into more complex levels of thought.
Ever tried debating with someone who's been Jesuit trained? It can be quite a...lessoning in critical thinking.

Having said that, instead of using the elementary school metaphor perhaps relevancy would be a better description. Religion or at least the core values from which it derives its conclusions are static in nature. The rationale need not be.
 

Mole

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Philosophy for the Free

Philosophy is useless like poetry. We do philosophy for its own sake. We do philosophy because it tickles our brain. Hey, we do philosophy because it puts us in the zone.

Doing something for its own sake is of the highest value. We lose ourselves and employ our highest faculties. We enter the flow.

It is not work but it is leisure that is dignified. And what do we do with leisure? We turn to philosophy.

The Ancient Greeks knew that leisure was the highest good and it was the Ancient Greeks who laid the foundations of Western philosophy.

But there are still those who tell us, "Arbeit macht frei", (Work shall make us free) but it is a spectacular lie over the gates of hell.

The Calvinists tell us the devil makes work for idle hands, and those hands must be put to work by capitalists to save our souls.

But we know work is for slaves and philosophy for the free.
 

Mole

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Jesuitical

Ever tried debating with someone who's been Jesuit trained? It can be quite a...lessoning in critical thinking.

Please! It was the Jesuits who gave us the word 'jesuitical', meaning the perversion of critical thinking.

And jesuitical perversion doesn't stop at thinking, as the Jesuits have just been forced to pay out one hundred and sixty six million US dollars to children they have raped in the north east of the United States.
 

Octarine

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Do you employ what philosophy you know? How?

So you are suggesting that philosophy is the religion for the high IQ crowd?
Seriously though, I think the main purpose of philosophy is to provide meta-perspective. It is unfortunate however that some philosophers have a tendency to get lost in their house of words (Hegel anyone?).
I recently watched a lecture series on the philosophy of science that I found fascinating (but it didn't discuss Bartley at all, which was disappointing).

Philosophy is important because it means people are questioning society, why people do what they do, etc. It also helps to clarify what is ethically important, and why.

Where does the philosophy stop and the sociology begin? In the days of the Greeks, there was no border between science and philosophy, but one seems to have been erected over the ages.
 

Mole

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The Vandals

Yes, to ask what is the use of philosophy is a vulgar question. It is like asking what is the use of poetry.

The question is for those who want to bring philosophy down to their own level. The question is for those who hate the finest qualities in themselves and in us. This is the question asked by vandals. They want to vandalise Western culture because they can't understand it.
 

skylights

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Philosophy leads to ideas, and ideas are useful for practically anything.

yep.

i actually find philosophy generally boring and a half, and my own philosophy books most enjoyable as doorstoppers, but i'm not going to argue that it doesn't have a place in the great scheme of things.
 

rav3n

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Please! It was the Jesuits who gave us the word 'jesuitical', meaning the perversion of critical thinking.

And jesuitical perversion doesn't stop at thinking, as the Jesuits have just been forced to pay out one hundred and sixty six million US dollars to children they have raped in the north east of the United States.
Victor, try to apply some critical thinking. Not all Jesuits are child fuckers and not all Jesuit trained are Jesuits. 'Kay?
 

Mole

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Vulgarity is enervating.

What the heck? :laugh:

Yes, to ask what is the use of philosophy is the same kind of question as asking, what is the meaning of a poem?

But what is so enervating is that the vulgar have no shame because vulgarity is so wide spread in popular culture.
 

Savage Idealist

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But what is philosophy if all it is can be contained within never ending arguments and tomes of waffle? Is this some strange form of religion and hence not necessarily needing to be relevant to have worth or is the point of philosophy to merely drone on contained within it's own realms unrelated to all it pretends to discover?

Perhaps ultimatley, philosophy is also nothing more than what people come to think of as true; everyone has an argument for 'their' system of ethics or metaphysics, thus all philosophical debates lead to is a clash of peoples independent truths?
 
A

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Philosophy is useless like poetry. We do philosophy for its own sake. We do philosophy because it tickles our brain. Hey, we do philosophy because it puts us in the zone.

Doing something for its own sake is of the highest value. We lose ourselves and employ our highest faculties. We enter the flow.

It is not work but it is leisure that is dignified. And what do we do with leisure? We turn to philosophy.

The Ancient Greeks knew that leisure was the highest good and it was the Ancient Greeks who laid the foundations of Western philosophy.

But there are still those who tell us, "Arbeit macht frei", (Work shall make us free) but it is a spectacular lie over the gates of hell.

The Calvinists tell us the devil makes work for idle hands, and those hands must be put to work by capitalists to save our souls.

But we know work is for slaves and philosophy for the free.

Dear Victor, let's stop meeting up in the weeds like this, okay?

But what is so enervating is that the vulgar have no shame because vulgarity is so wide spread in popular culture.

There ya go.
 

Mole

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We are ends not means.

There's Pure Mathematics and Applied Mathematics. Pure Mathematics is done for its own sake, while Applied Mathematics is useful.

There's Science and Technology. Science is done for its own sake, while Technology is useful.

And just like Pure Mathematics and Science, Philosophy is done for its own sake.

In the same way we are ends not means.
 

Beorn

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Philosophy is the undergirding of all human activity even if it often seems detached from the practical. XKCD pointed out the other day that if you click on the first link in any article repeatedly (skipping italicized and words within parenthetical) you always end up at philosophy.

I think a neat analogy between philosophers and mankind is the relationship between business and the law. Many business people are not fond of lawyers and avoid them as much as possible thinking that they add very little practical value. But, the fact of the matter is that the entire capitalist system is based on property rights guaranteed by the law. If people cannot legally own property then they cannot leverage their property and create capital because lenders will not take the risk. Similarly philosophers are the seekers of truth (or they should be) people think that obscure philosophers have nothing to do with their lives, yet people are paralyzed from action if they do not know the truth or think they know the truth. This is obvious in people's hesitancy to make uninformed decisions.

As far as using philosophy with wit and skill goes... it's just really hard. I think there's two reason for this: 1. A lot of it (especially more modern writings) is much more convoluted and difficult than it needs to be 2. Philosophy is an area of specialized knowledge so even the clearest thinkers make use of a specialized vocabulary which enables them to be very precise in their writing. Thus, even if you can understand certain philosophical ideas being able to apply that understanding to discussions in layman's terms takes a great deal of wit and skill.
 

Xander

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So you are suggesting that philosophy is the religion for the high IQ crowd?
If it claims to reveal truths and yet just ties pretty bows with complicated language and hidden meaning then yes why not? You have your saints and you're not supposed to question the foundation which in this case is nothing to do with challenging the theories, that's acceptable and encouraged, but rather challenging whether it's a complete waste of time and a circle jerk.
 

Xander

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There's Pure Mathematics and Applied Mathematics. Pure Mathematics is done for its own sake, while Applied Mathematics is useful.

There's Science and Technology. Science is done for its own sake, while Technology is useful.

And just like Pure Mathematics and Science, Philosophy is done for its own sake.

In the same way we are ends not means.

Pure mathematics leads to applied mathematics, science leads to technology. In both cases the pairing shows the research side and the applied side. Where is the applied side of philosophy? As far as I can tell it's in most decent decisions made but it's never attributed and as the theory is never taught to children then the application dies off too as shown by the myriad of management theories shown here in the UK and in other examples such as the design of series like "The Apprentice" where claims to being a decent selection process are not held up by the mistakes in conception. So what you say? Well real people take those kinds of examples and think they are gospel because they have authority figures attached to it and they lack critical thinking sufficient to disassemble it because the theories are never taught.
 
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