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  1. #11
    Senior Member Beargryllz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    I also think, and this is very much evidenced by your final paragraph, that you're trafficking in sophistry, Socrates and Plato would have totally owned you for doing this.
    Yes but, angering the old philosophers is the best way to start philosophizing. Remember, fresh content. They're dead and couldn't win any argument anyway.

  2. #12
    Lex Parsimoniae Xander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beargryllz View Post
    Philosophy leads to ideas, and ideas are useful for practically anything.
    Ideas are not always the end point. In fact they almost never are the end point. They're just the point people stop at when either the idea or the gumption runs out.
    Quote Originally Posted by Marmie Dearest View Post
    Philosophy is important because it means people are questioning society, why people do what they do, etc. It also helps to clarify what is ethically important, and why.
    If only that were more true.
    Quote Originally Posted by Marmie Dearest View Post
    On the other hand, I think sometimes it goes too far. I don't know if this is because I lack Ti, or am not an NT, or am just a little less N, but after a certain point philosophy gets on my nerves because it doesn't seem like it has much to do with real life and real people.

    If philosophy doesn't have some applicable purpose it's just bullshit.
    I agree whole heartedly, hence the preceding comment. Just one disagreement, you're talking rubbish with the "just a little less N". That's the whole thing with intuition, if it doesn't hang well in your gallery then it's wrong by your measure, screw the instance, it needs to fit!

    Philosophy often splurges outside of actual applicable use, usually when someone gets too fluffed up with their own importance. It's been my experience that philosophy is only useful if all you take from it is the ability to analyse and the few gems of true wisdom, oddly the very things than many who ply their intelligence on the backs of philosophy often forget.
    Isn't it time for a colourful metaphor?

  3. #13
    Senior Member Beargryllz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xander View Post
    Ideas are not always the end point. In fact they almost never are the end point. They're just the point people stop at when either the idea or the gumption runs out.
    Who searches for the end?

  4. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by Beargryllz View Post
    Yes but, angering the old philosophers is the best way to start philosophizing. Remember, fresh content. They're dead and couldn't win any argument anyway.
    Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear...

  5. #15
    Lex Parsimoniae Xander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    I dont agree with what you've said about religion at all.
    You are entitled to that opinion but perhaps the discussion would be best left to another thread? Don't get me wrong though, I'm not here to beat on religion, I just really don't see it on a par with mathematics or critical thinking as necessary to life. That and I probably can't recall a minute of it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    I also think, and this is very much evidenced by your final paragraph, that you're trafficking in sophistry, Socrates and Plato would have totally owned you for doing this.
    A heavy claim. Do I confound you? Am I being overly evasive? How would you prefer me to proceed? Are we looking at a conversation here or just feedback followed by a full stop?
    Isn't it time for a colourful metaphor?

  6. #16
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    Isn't philosophy the ultimate search for truth in of itself? The area of knowledge that answers question that neither science nor religion could hope to answer?

    Without philosophy, without some notion of personal truth or ideas about things, what is life but a mere means of survival like the animals?

  7. #17
    Lex Parsimoniae Xander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beargryllz View Post
    Who searches for the end?
    Those who wish to remain competent and relevant.
    Isn't it time for a colourful metaphor?

  8. #18
    Lex Parsimoniae Xander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Savage Idealist View Post
    Isn't philosophy the ultimate search for truth in of itself? The area of knowledge that answers question that neither science nor religion could hope to answer?

    Without philosophy, without some notion of personal truth or ideas about things, what is life but a mere means of survival like the animals?
    But what is philosophy if all it is can be contained within never ending arguments and tomes of waffle? Is this some strange form of religion and hence not necessarily needing to be relevant to have worth or is the point of philosophy to merely drone on contained within it's own realms unrelated to all it pretends to discover?
    Isn't it time for a colourful metaphor?

  9. #19

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    OK, away from the attempts to craft verbose and clever sounding arguments while attributing ignorance to everyone else for a moment.

    I would have to say that philosophy serves a number of purposes for me and I'll list them for convenience sake:

    - Entertainment and diversion, its undeniable that philosophy serves me because it proves interesting to me and I like to read and discuss what I've read, it is a big topic. This is one of the things which a consider important about philosophy besides it actually having any utility. Most individuals can manage to get through life, its challenges and stresses with their practical reason and, providence or good fortune permitting, what capacity for adaptive thinking and behaviour they've developed over the lifespan, ie psychology.

    - It is a source of wisdom and a knowledge base, to be honest I've outgrown the tendency to imagine that I'm having unique and original bursts of insight with perrenial significance, its not so much believing that there's nothing new under the sun but just that there really is not the need to expend the energy, effort and time some people to reaching the conclusions that others have already reached, often with more eloquence than I can master. I really do believe that those who dont learn from the past, or specifically others painful mistakes, are doomed to repeat them or live the same mistakes and misadventures out themselves.

    - There is a lot in philosophy, mainly stoicism, which prefigures the development of present day psychology and applied psychology in the form of therapies, seriously, cognitive behavioural therapy is just applied stoicism, reading and rereading the manuals Euripides (spelling) it is obvious that what is being talked about is the reframing and positive or objective rationalisations which CBT aims for. Zen achieves similar results in different ways and is much more holistic, aiming to overcome cerebration. The emphasis upon "knowing thyself" preigures psycho-analysis and Jung's whole work is a tribute to the philosophies and religions of the past interpreted in the new light of recent (to his own time) insight. So philosophy provides a lot of coping strategies for life's challenges and stress. You dont need what philosophy provides, you may get by without it, but its there why not use it?

    - Resonance. Sometimes its good to know that you're not the only person who has faced a particular dilemma, not just in the seeking of a solution either but simply that you're not experiencing something totally alone. Philosophy is probably as good as psychology when it comes to interpreting or describing or dealing with existential angst, possibly more so because it can use literary sources, examples or forms which psychology generally wouldnt.

    To me applied psychology isnt about learning doctrines which can allow you to craft a better arguments, appear clever to your peers or feed your ego, people are going to find it serves them in different ways and that's fine. Perhaps the only real application which is universal is the bridging effect between the past and present, possibly the future, or between individuals.

    My two cents anyway.

  10. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by Xander View Post
    You are entitled to that opinion but perhaps the discussion would be best left to another thread? Don't get me wrong though, I'm not here to beat on religion, I just really don't see it on a par with mathematics or critical thinking as necessary to life. That and I probably can't recall a minute of it.
    I wasnt going to discuss it any further. Although religion has had more to do with the development of both mathematics and critical thinking that you probably realise. Simply because you cant remember it doesnt invalidate it either. That's totally weak.

    A heavy claim. Do I confound you? Am I being overly evasive? How would you prefer me to proceed? Are we looking at a conversation here or just feedback followed by a full stop?
    Its not so heavy considering the content of your posts. No you dont confound me. Sophistry doesnt. I think you're aiming to be clever and witty.

    Good luck with that.

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