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  1. #41
    Senior Member Viridian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ICUP View Post
    This does seem to be similar in belief to everyday feminists I know..... if a feminine character is put in any role other than equal, they call foul. This includes showing a dark, manipulative side. Some feminists don't want female characters to appear to be "evil", to manipulate, or to use or take advantage of people.
    By evil, do you mean like a "femme fatale" or simply a female character who happens to be a villain? I think I know a few who fit the latter without fitting the former...

    Quote Originally Posted by Marmie Dearest View Post
    I love it when women are girly or evil, as long as ALL women aren't portrayed that way. I'm very happy to recognize that both males and females behave this way.

    Then again, I also think Judd Apatow films are funny.

    I'm not one of the crazy feminists and I don't want to be associated with them. I don't know if those feminists are all NFJs and NTs or what, but it seems really preposterous and idealistic and "politically correct." I don't like it when feminists can't relate to women who aren't like themselves (for example, feminists who are more girly in their gender and maybe submissive in their sexual preferences, or who want to be stay-at-home-moms).

    Feminism to me is about equality and respect. That is all. Hell, that can be hard enough to get in and of itself without having all of these other creepy little demands.
    Bolded: Why NTs and NFJs specifically? Just curious.

    Underlined: I remember another F!Secret about this - one poster there in particular said that, nowadays, being a housewife - a "career" that leaves you with nowhere to go in case of divorce and makes you financially dependant on someone else - is no longer viable... But I suppose that's beyond the scope of the thread. Sorry for the digression.

  2. #42
    Senior Member ICUP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Viridian View Post
    By evil, do you mean like a "femme fatale" or simply a female character who happens to be a villain? I think I know a few who fit the latter without fitting the former...
    Both for some I know.....
    the isfj doesn't want either. she wants them to be "good", and any character that is not, in her eyes, she calls foul. she doesn't identify with me in any way, shape, or form lol....... but we get along okay.
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  3. #43
    Senior Member Viridian's Avatar
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    By the way, considering Saturned's examples as non-feminist but "feminism-friendly" works, which kinds of (fictional) works would be considered explicitly feminist? Could you give me examples?

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Viridian View Post
    Bolded: Why NTs
    Because I'm stereotyping that NT women would be more career-driven and look down on anything that could even show a trace of being codependent, overly relationship focused, jealous or possessive, etc. to a point that some NT women I've encountered on-line almost seem HOSTILE to romance. So I would imagine that many of them are more offended by "girly" women or women who insist on taking their husband's last name or being stay-at-home moms than some other women would be.

    and NFJs specifically? Just curious.
    NFJ because I associated NFJ with "politically correct." This is not to say that NFPs can't have particular moral standards, because of course they do, but the particular form that political correctness takes strikes me as a rather Fe set of externally measured manners.

    Fi, on the other hand, often insists on things being "authentic" even if they're "offensive."

  5. #45
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmie Dearest View Post
    Because I'm stereotyping that NT women would be more career-driven and look down on anything that could even show a trace of being codependent, overly relationship focused, jealous or possessive, etc. to a point that some NT women I've encountered on-line almost seem HOSTILE to romance. So I would imagine that many of them are more offended by "girly" women or women who insist on taking their husband's last name or being stay-at-home moms than some other women would be.
    Yeah, I agree: You're definitely stereotyping.
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  6. #46
    Senior Member Viridian's Avatar
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    OK, I thought about something this afternoon...

    Is Disney's Mulan:

    a) a feminist movie, due to our heroine's perseverance and how she proves her cleverness and willpower?
    b) an anti-/non-feminist movie, due to her main goals revolving around the family patriarch and due to her decision at the ending?
    c) a movie that can be interpreted either way?

    And, depending on the answer, does liking the movie say anything about your moral character?

  7. #47
    Senior Member Nicodemus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Viridian View Post
    Is Disney's Mulan:

    a) a feminist movie, due to our heroine's perseverance and how she proves her cleverness and willpower?
    b) an anti-/non-feminist movie, due to her main goals revolving around the family patriarch and due to her decision at the ending?
    c) a movie that can be interpreted either way?
    More a) than b) and - not only - because of that also a bit c).

    Quote Originally Posted by Viridian View Post
    And, depending on the answer, does liking the movie say anything about your moral character?
    It certainly says something about you. What that is cannot be answered based on the information that you like it alone. One would need to ask what it is you like about it and why.

  8. #48
    Senior Member Viridian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nicodemus View Post
    It certainly says something about you. What that is cannot be answered based on the information that you like it alone. One would need to ask what it is you like about it and why.
    I guess that's the logical answer.

  9. #49
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Viridian View Post
    Is Disney's Mulan:

    a) a feminist movie, due to our heroine's perseverance and how she proves her cleverness and willpower?
    b) an anti-/non-feminist movie, due to her main goals revolving around the family patriarch and due to her decision at the ending?
    c) a movie that can be interpreted either way?

    And, depending on the answer, does liking the movie say anything about your moral character?
    Taking into account the context, mostly (a). One would have to see how Mulan lives out the rest of her life to evaluate her mindset more fully. Liking or disliking the movie may say much more about one's aesthetic tastes than one's moral character, though the explanation Nicodemus mentions would reveal one's values.
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