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  1. #31
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peguy View Post
    Survey saids........XXX

    Of course I've shown you this several times before in the past Victor. Is this the time it's going to finally sink in?

    BTW, you also realise that religious revivalism was a key factor in the cause for abolishing slavery in the 19th century right? I mean one of the more famous person involved was John Newton, who wrote "Amazing Grace".
    You mean I can't hang slavery round your neck?

  2. #32
    Sniffles
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    Does that mean you have no real counter-argument to present?

  3. #33
    Senior Member Xyk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    Surely natural selection is not accidental.
    I was referring to existence on a cosmic scale. Natural selection is accidental in that individual creatures don't usually select their mates in order to create Victor or Xyk in a distant future. That's an unexpected consequence. Our ancestors chose their mates based on their fitness for their environment and their ability to survive, as well as for silly sexual reasons. There's no long-term plan in mind when individuals choose their mates.

  4. #34
    A window to the soul
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xyk View Post
    It's actually extremely likely.
    -technicolor yawns-

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peguy View Post
    Does that mean you have no real counter-argument to present?
    I find it hard to understand how you can say institutional slavery was abolished before 1833 when your country was conducting highly profitable institutional slavery up to and past 1833. In fact the Royal Navy was sent to shut you down.

    On the other side of the ledger, my country has never known institutional slavery.

    So I am pure as the driven snow, while you are black as soot.

  6. #36
    Sniffles
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    How long are you going to ignore simple historical fact Victor?

  7. #37
    Dreaming the life onemoretime's Avatar
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    I think the point is that religious people are no less evil than the rest of us, and yet, many of them spend an awful amount of time trying to convince us otherwise

  8. #38
    LL P. Stewie Beorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    I guess it is a shock to realise Jesus and his disciples took institutional slavery for granted, just like everyone else around them.

    Today we know that institutional slavery was the world's greatest evil, but neither Jesus, his disciples or the people of the era knew this.
    The world's greatest evil lies in the heart of every person.

    Individualism may free people to some extent from the tyranny of others, but it doesn't free them from the tyranny of their own evil hearts. This was one of the fundamental flaws of the enlightenment that progress would not only yield the good like a small pox vaccine, but also the nuclear bomb.

    Moreover, If you understand this you are less prone to pat yourself on the back for the "progress" society has made. You understand that people are filled with evil and more often then not progress just means that we have become better at hiding our evilness. So instead of having black slaves on our plantations we have children working in sweat shops far out of sight and mind. Rather than having indentured servants and surfs we have indian visa slaves amongst us forced to work for low wages out if fear of being deported. Rather than having concubines we have abused troubled young women doing porn.

    Western society has been transformed from a repugnant pile of dead bodies into nice white washed tombs. Much easier on the eyes, but still filled with death.

    The only answer to this ever lurking evil is the triad of truth, beauty and goodness which I believe is perfectly personified in the triune God. These were present at the beginning of the enlightenment when Christianity still held some sway, but eventually were discarded as reason was "freed" from religion. Then we looked only to the God of progress.

    And what has that God yielded us?

    Without truth, beauty and goodness Modern life has brought with it not only great comfort and convenience, but we must deal with a materialistic fast paced life where tensions are constantly high because of the demands of pragmatism, yet we are surrounded on all sides by gigantic indifferent institutions of business and government.

    The enlightenment was a lie. We cannot create our own paradise of meaning with reason alone. In the wake of this colossal failure we have seen the rise of popular postmodernism where people weary and despondent from the unfilled promise of the enlightenment have surrendered any real search for meaning favoring irony and indifference.

    Stop living in the 17th century, Victor, and join the rest of us in the 21st century. You seem to be one of the few people who can't see with their own eyes the evils that the enlightenment has visited upon us. Even ignorant ass postmodern hipsters can see it and I know you're far smarter than most of them.
    Take the weakest thing in you
    And then beat the bastards with it
    And always hold on when you get love
    So you can let go when you give it

  9. #39
    A window to the soul
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    Quote Originally Posted by onemoretime View Post
    I think the point is that religious people are no less evil than the rest of us, and yet, many of them spend an awful amount of time trying to convince us otherwise
    Yes.

  10. #40
    LL P. Stewie Beorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by onemoretime View Post
    I think the point is that religious people are no less evil than the rest of us, and yet, many of them spend an awful amount of time trying to convince us otherwise
    The problem is that all people spend their time convincing themselves that they aren't any worst than the next guy when the truth is that we are all horrifically evil living only by the grace granted to us by God and each other.


    [YOUTUBE="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=otx49Ko3fxw"]Sufjan Stevens- John Wayne Gacy[/YOUTUBE]

    "In my best behavior I'm really just like him
    Look beneath the floor boards for the secrets I have hid"
    Take the weakest thing in you
    And then beat the bastards with it
    And always hold on when you get love
    So you can let go when you give it

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