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Prayer in school

entropie

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I think for those who really care about praying in school, they're probably already praying. Prayer doesn't have to be the whole 'getting on your knees, putting your hands together, and bowing your head' deal, it can be just talking to whom ever you believe in in a quiet whisper through out the day or even in your head.

Yes. Making people pray isnt even our westerns religions intention.
 

Kriash

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I don't think there should be time set aside for prayer. One, as a non-religious person, I would find the time incredibly boring, and I know that others would too. My cousin is extremely religious, and even she doesn't need time set for her to pray. She prays during her lunch hour, and when she's walking to classes.

Of course, when it comes to people who have set times to pray, like Muslims (or anyone else), I think if the student is really religious, they should be excused from class, and given a space(empty classroom or office) to do their prayers. The only problem I see with this is that it could easily be abused.
 

Lark

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I was schooled at both a primary and secondary Roman Catholic school, the experience would not have turned me on to religion if I had not other influences, family influences and, I'll be honest, if I didnt have athiests to argue with or oppose, in the schools and without.

I have terrible, terrible memories of morning assemblies, terror of not knowing prayers, we had teachers and a head mistress who would walk along the line and lean in to hear whether you were reciting it properly, if your hands were joined wrongly and you were considered to be slouched or any number of things you would be shaken, slapped on the back of the head, dragged along or out in front of the others assembled there, who may laugh at you, bully you as a consequence (they would be encouraged to do so).

It was only one of many authoritarian displays and charades, I remember being tortured at my first communion because I couldnt genuflect (spelling) go down on one knee and standing up again, the bullying and all went along with it too. I remember being singled out to provide prayers and responses later at secondary school during a mass because a teacher found it amusing that I couldnt pronounce the word hallijuella (spelling), on this occasion a priest who was pretty tuned in realised what was going on and said the response just before I would have to and saved me the embarrassment.

So I know how when things like this are instituted as daily practices how they can be not so much corrupted as abused, I used to think a lot of the teachers involved in this kind of thing werent that convinced of religion themselves and resented having to provide any sort of teaching in it.

Religion is like a little tree which is made into a club and then people wonder why it does not produce blossoms.
 

redacted

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I believe we get many of our good morals from religion. This means that if children of atheistic parents have no contact with religion in their formative years there's a very high risk of them growing up to become antisocial individuals with dangerous values,

Whoa that's a pretty bold conclusion :)

I'm totally against prayer in school unless it's specifically a religious school. It doesn't leave room for those with fringe views, which just furthers the gap for the outliers.

School should be about information, not values. Otherwise it's indoctrination.
 

Xyk

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I hope YWIR is just trolling. But his comment about moral atheists maybe not existing really grinds my gears. Mandatory prayer in schools is ridiculous, frankly. It's similar to mandatory pledge-taking. I don't do either because I don't believe in a god or have any will to pledge my allegiance to the region I happened to be born in. That's just nationalism, one of the MAIN (Militarism, Alliances, Imperialism, Nationalism) causes of WWI. Anyways, mandatory prayer in schools infringes on my freedom of religion and I'd protest the shit out of it.
 

Totenkindly

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I recently had a discussion with a friend regarding this hot potato, but what do you think of having a mandatory few minutes of prayer in school? Personally, I am a supporter of this, if you go to a religious school.

Relevant part highlighted.
 

ajblaise

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Most of the big religions emphasize a private relationship with God. Organized displays of it always seemed pretty fake and hollow to me. Everyone just going through the motions, most bored out of their minds... (depending on the sect... cult religions, I totally buy their public enthusiasm).

It's like getting off of a drug, you have to do it for yourself, it's an internal decision. Same with getting on religion, you have to do it for yourself, it's an internal decision. hehe. :)

So no prayer in school! Learning about the world should be secular in education, same with gov't. Save the religion for History class.
 

esidebill

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Most of the big religions emphasize a private relationship with God. Organized displays of it always seemed pretty fake and hollow to me. Everyone just going through the motions, most bored out of their minds... (depending on the sect... cult religions, I totally buy their public enthusiasm).

It's like getting off of a drug, you have to do it for yourself, it's an internal decision. Same with getting on religion, you have to do it for yourself, it's an internal decision. hehe. :)

So no prayer in school! Learning about the world should be secular. Save the religion for History class.

Even the religion in History should be no more than the whereabouts of it's origin. Perhaps a history describing the "real" journeys that these scriptural characters had, but no faith! I even can't imagine the nerve of some of these historians pretending they knew what happened. Burn the history textbooks!
 

Coriolis

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Schools should teach comparitive religion, including what we do know about the origins of major world religions, as well as the central tenets of each. Some objective insight into these origins, along with consideration of non-Christian religions in the same terms as Christianity, might cause students (1) to recognize common themes among world religions; (2) to have more respect and understanding of religions other than their own; and (3) to analyze religious claims more critically in general. Of course, it is for exactly these reasons that I suspect we do not have such classes in schools.
 

esidebill

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Schools should teach comparitive religion, including what we do know about the origins of major world religions, as well as the central tenets of each. Some objective insight into these origins, along with consideration of non-Christian religions in the same terms as Christianity, might cause students (1) to recognize common themes among world religions; (2) to have more respect and understanding of religions other than their own; and (3) to analyze religious claims more critically in general. Of course, it is for exactly these reasons that I suspect we do not have such classes in schools.

See I would agree with that, but the problem is the nation we live in is not very good with forcing radical ideas into the school system. ESPECIALLY about other religions. I have been taught maybe the basics of Buddhism and the "lighter" religions in some History courses, but no modern forces. I really can't even fathom the amount of whambulances we'd need to support that kind of change in the curriculum. And plus, critical analyzing is a joke in todays education systems. People can't even write a good topic, let alone read and analyze one.
 

Coriolis

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See I would agree with that, but the problem is the nation we live in is not very good with forcing radical ideas into the school system. ESPECIALLY about other religions. I have been taught maybe the basics of Buddhism and the "lighter" religions in some History courses, but no modern forces. I really can't even fathom the amount of whambulances we'd need to support that kind of change in the curriculum. And plus, critical analyzing is a joke in todays education systems. People can't even write a good topic, let alone read and analyze one.
You are, unfortunately, correct. I leave the religious angle alone, but have done some work on the critical analysis side. A drop in the bucket, but better than nothing.
 

Red Herring

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I recently had a discussion with a friend regarding this hot potato, but what do you think of having a mandatory few minutes of prayer in school?
Personally, I am a supporter of this, if you go to a religious school.

If it is a religious private school, sure, knock yourself out.

I believe we get many of our good morals from religion. This means that if children of atheistic parents have no contact with religion in their formative years there's a very high risk of them growing up to become antisocial individuals with dangerous values,

Yeah, not buying...:coffee:

Even the so-called "moral atheists" - if they exist - would give in and pray if it helped.

See below.

If all else fails there is the flying spaghetti monster that gets ignored a lot.

Pasta be upon him. Ramen.

I think YWIR is trolling you guys....

Agreed. I have too much respect for her to think otherwise.

I hope YWIR is just trolling. But his comment about moral atheists maybe not existing really grinds my gears. Mandatory prayer in schools is ridiculous, frankly. It's similar to mandatory pledge-taking. I don't do either because I don't believe in a god or have any will to pledge my allegiance to the region I happened to be born in. That's just nationalism, one of the MAIN (Militarism, Alliances, Imperialism, Nationalism) causes of WWI. Anyways, mandatory prayer in schools infringes on my freedom of religion and I'd protest the shit out of it.

YWIR is the second NT woman you have mistaken for a male in less than 48 hours :biggrin: Other than that, I agree.

Move over Mark Twain, she's coming through! Rock and roll.
He might have been a bitter man towards his end after the death of his wife and two daughters, but he definitely was a very moral person. And technically not an atheist but a deist. Just saying.:tongue10:
 

Sanctus Iacobus

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Mandatory prayer sounds like a bad idea. It has been my personal experience that effective prayer is authentic and comes from a heartfelt realization of our need for God. It's sad to see something so personal be turned into an empty religious formality.
 

Xyk

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YWIR is the second NT woman you have mistaken for a male in less than 48 hours :biggrin: Other than that, I agree.

Aw, shoot. When I don't know, I always assume male because that's what the english language does. His/him are the gender neutral pronouns in addition to the masculine ones.
 

Litvyak

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Personally, I am a supporter of this, if you go to a religious school. I believe we get many of our good morals from religion. This means that if children of atheistic parents have no contact with religion in their formative years there's a very high risk of them growing up to become antisocial individuals with dangerous values,

I believe we get most of our unhealthy beliefs, repressions, anxiety and delusions from religion. This means that if children of believers have contact with christianity in their formative years there's a very high risk of them growing up to become sad and passive-agressive conformists with nothing new to add to society.

And I'm only half-trolling.
 

ceecee

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I recently had a discussion with a friend regarding this hot potato, but what do you think of having a mandatory few minutes of prayer in school?

I got to the bolded and said No. Hell no.

Personally, I am a supporter of this, if you go to a religious school.

Wouldn't religious education be part of the curriculum at a religious school? Generally you would want that since you're paying for it.

I believe we get many of our good morals from religion.

Of course! You can't possibly form values and morals without a WWJD bracelet on.


Yeah I'm pretty sure you're jerking our collective chain but I just wanted to get that out too.
 
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