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  1. #61
    Sniffles
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    IIRC Finland still has an official Lutheran state church.

  2. #62
    Ginkgo
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beargryllz View Post
    I think that anyone who wants to pray should probably pray, and anyone who doesn't want to pray probably shouldn't pray. But how on earth could we ever reach a compromise if some people want to pray, and some people don't? How could we possibly provide an environment where individuals can do more than one thing AND maintain the etiquette that we hold in high esteem, to live and let live. How, I ask you?
    Very carefully.

  3. #63
    Superwoman Red Herring's Avatar
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    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_r...tian_countries

    Jurisdictions which recognize a Lutheran church as their state religion include the Nordic countries. Membership is very high among the general population, however the amount of actively participating members and believers is considerably lower than in many other countries with similar membership statistics. Furthermore, all of these churches have lately seen decline in the fraction of the population being members.

    Denmark (Church of Denmark)
    Iceland (Church of Iceland) (79% of population members at the end of 2009)
    Norway (Church of Norway) (80% of population members at the end of 2009)
    Finland: Evangelical Lutheran Church of Finland has a special relationship with the Finnish state, its internal structure being described in a special law, the Church Act. The Church Act can be amended only by a decision of the Synod of the Evangelical Lutheran Church and subsequent ratification by the parliament. The Church Act is protected by the Finnish constitution, and the state can not change the Church Act without changing the constitution. The church has a power to tax its members and all corporations unless a majority of shareholders are members of the Finnish Orthodox Church. The state collects these taxes for the church, for a fee. On the other hand, the church is required to give a burial place for everyone in its graveyards. (79% of population members at the end of 2009). The Finnish president also decides the themes for the intercession days. The church does not consider itself a state church, as the Finnish state does not have the power to influence its internal workings or its theology, although it has a veto in those changes of the internal structure which require changing the Church Act. Neither does the Finnish state accord any precedence to Lutherans or the Lutheran faith in its own acts.
    Sweden relegated their state church into a national church in 2000. In late 2009 the church of Sweden had 71.3% of the population as its members in 2009.
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  4. #64
    Senior Member esidebill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ginkgo View Post
    Very carefully.
    More like, "in a perfect society" ... I hate that term.
    "Others should not judge what you truly are, instead you should find yourself. You may find yourself in a bowl of cereal or dreaming of the unknown, but make sure it is you who finds you." - Myself


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  5. #65
    ♪♫♪♫♪♫ luminous beam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beargryllz View Post
    I think that anyone who wants to pray should probably pray, and anyone who doesn't want to pray probably shouldn't pray. But how on earth could we ever reach a compromise if some people want to pray, and some people don't? How could we possibly provide an environment where individuals can do more than one thing AND maintain the etiquette that we hold in high esteem, to live and let live. How, I ask you?
    I agree with what you've said about people that want to pray should, and those who don't want to, shouldn't have to. Why can't people who want to pray just pray quietly to themselves at any time of day, any place they're in. That to me sounds very unobtrusive. However, I am aware that there are probably some religions, like Muslim, for example, that sometimes may require you to face a certain direction and get down on the floor to do it. A set prayer time in a religious school could be nice, but perhaps students could be allowed to skip it if necessary.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tigerlily View Post
    I do not support prayer/religion being taught in schools that are not religious.
    I'm sure there are some religious study classes in schools, I don't see anything wrong with students just learning about different cultures and religions. However, prayer within these classes could perhaps be limited to students who are willingly gathering for that sole purpose.


  6. #66
    Senior Member Perch420's Avatar
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    Prayer should be illegal because religion is a burden on society.
    “Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions.” - G. K. Chesterton

  7. #67
    No Cigar Litvyak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Perch420 View Post
    Prayer should be illegal because religion is a burden on society.
    The most basic thing about making laws is that you don't illegalize something unless it is possible to monitor and sanction non-compliance.
    I don't care if you're 13 or 15 or whatever, stop spreading BS.

  8. #68
    Senior Member esidebill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Perch420 View Post
    Prayer should be illegal because religion is a burden on society.
    Free thought is a burden on society.
    "Others should not judge what you truly are, instead you should find yourself. You may find yourself in a bowl of cereal or dreaming of the unknown, but make sure it is you who finds you." - Myself


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  9. #69
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    The Nightmare of Religion

    Quote Originally Posted by AngryWhoremoans View Post
    I believe we get many of our good morals from religion.
    We get terrible morals from religion and the Abrahamic religions are a good example where God ordered Abraham to murder his son to test Abraham's obedience.

    The Koran teaches the hatred of Jews, Dhimmi and Infidels and those who kill them will be rewarded by God in heaven with seventy-two virgins.

    So rather than teaching good morals religion is a nightmare from which we are trying to wake up.

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Giggly View Post
    Why do we even separate the church and state?
    We separate the Church and State in the West because of the wars of religion. We reached a settlement where freedom of religion was balanced by the separation of the Church and State.

    Unfortunately Islam does not know the separation of Mosque and State and fully rejects such separation.

    And worse, Islam has started a jihad in the West to bring Islam into the public arena once again. This is called Islamicisation and consists of terrorism, propaganda and migration.

    We seem to be unable to do anything about this because we are not doing the same thing to them. And we can't even imagine why they are doing this to us.

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