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  1. #41
    Senior Member lowtech redneck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    Still, this isnt Egypt or Jordan its typoC so instead of telling people that their choices are illiberal/sharia or some other synymon for "wrong" or "evil" wouldnt it be a useful opportunity to open a dialogue with some questions? Otherwise what's the point of even posting?
    She asked what people thought about the hijab, and their reasons for it-I provided that. The point being she is looking for feedback. (The first part of my post was simply a response to Gromit, who claimed that an opinion was offensive without explaining why she thought it was false, which is essentially a means of social intimidation). And I said that wearing the hijab correlates with illiberal interpretations of Islam, not that it is illiberal in itself. The implication is that many people will assume that she likely holds beliefs that she presumably does not, just as many people assume people with Confederate flags somewhere on their person or property hold racist beliefs. I also found it ironic, in that I have been in a similar position as her, but in this case the shoe is on the other foot (i.e. I would assume that a Muslim woman I don't know who chooses to wear the hijab likely adheres to illiberal-not to be confused with militant-interpretations of Islam).

  2. #42
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lowtech redneck View Post
    She asked what people thought about the hijab, and their reasons for it-I provided that. The point being she is looking for feedback. (The first part of my post was simply a response to Gromit, who claimed that an opinion was offensive without explaining why she thought it was false, which is essentially a means of social intimidation). And I said that wearing the hijab correlates with illiberal interpretations of Islam, not that it is illiberal in itself. The implication is that many people will assume that she likely holds beliefs that she presumably does not, just as many people assume people with Confederate flags somewhere on their person or property hold racist beliefs. I also found it ironic, in that I have been in a similar position as her, but in this case the shoe is on the other foot (i.e. I would assume that a Muslim woman I don't know who chooses to wear the hijab likely adheres to illiberal-not to be confused with militant-interpretations of Islam).
    I dont think its social censor (which I think is more apt a description than intimidation but I think I know what you mean) to simply state that a particular post was offensive.

    I wasnt questioning whether or not you were providing your thoughts, you obviously were, just whether or not they were conducive to closing down or opening up a dialogue, which I didnt think they were. So far as implications and presumptions, all that wasnt not clear in your earlier post, thanks for clarifying.

  3. #43
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    I think we are foolish to argue for or against the wearing of the hijab, rather we should be arguing about what the hijab represents, for the hijab represents a violent, totalitarian political religion.

    It is expanding and teaches hatred of Jews, Dhimmi and infidels.

    The hijab is not just a veil, it is a flag. And women are the flagpole. And we should be asking, what does it flag?
    Does the meaning of the symbol reside within the symbol or within the interpreter?
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  4. #44
    Senior Member SRT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by entropie View Post
    How would you explain that to a rational enlightend empirical modern thinker ? (who is college libertarian )
    Like any social object, the value of the hijab lies in its symbolism. The hijab's symbolism being that it shows an intentional desire for modesty and a life devoid of individual pride (I'm assuming). Wearing clothing that reduces your pride reminds you of your place in life, i.e. as equals with other people.

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    Does the meaning of the symbol reside within the symbol or within the interpreter?
    Best post I've seen so far.

  6. #46
    Senior Member ceecee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    Because men are not sexy.
    Not true.
    I like to rock n' roll all night and *part* of every day. I usually have errands... I can only rock from like 1-3.

  7. #47
    Senior Member ThinkingAboutIt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by YWIR View Post
    Jenaphor and others: The veil brings you closer to God because wearing it is less comfortable than not doing so. The more uncomfortable women are in this life, the more we will be rewarded in the afterlife. At least that's how I have interpreted the Qur'an. To put it in Christian terms, the veil is like a chronic ailment received in the Crusades: A symbol of your worship.
    I found this: Tell the faithful women to lower their gaze and guard their private parts and not display their beauty except what is apparent of it, and to extend their scarf to cover their bosom - Source: Quran, 24:31 (English translation)

    So it looks like it is about humility? Not only 'lowering the gaze', but covering the body and hiding beauty is to lose individual identity and dependence on those things that usually make a woman feel good about herself. Instead, it makes her focus and depend on God to meet all of her needs - including the need to be desired, loved, etc...

    I am curious why they addressed it to 'faithful women' - does the action of wearing a hijab make a muslim woman faithful? Being closer to God doesn't make one faithful does it? Isn't the muslim faith works based? Meaning you have to do things to be and stay saved?

    As a side note, the Crusades were not a Christian event. They were a Roman Catholic Church invasion of muslim countries. The Inquision was also a Roman Catholic Church 'event'. A Roman Catholic's beliefs about salvation and faith are very different than a Christian's.
    Just because you can doesn't mean you should.

  8. #48
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThinkingAboutIt View Post
    As a side note, the Crusades were not a Christian event. They were a Roman Catholic Church invasion of muslim countries. The Inquision was also a Roman Catholic Church 'event'. A Roman Catholic's beliefs about salvation and faith are very different than a Christian's.
    Back when we were kicking ass and taking names, inquisition's gonna get yo mamma!! And your mere christianity, chancers.

  9. #49
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Did anyone else think this thread was about John Rawls?

  10. #50
    Senior Member ThinkingAboutIt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    Back when we were kicking ass and taking names, inquisition's gonna get yo mamma!! And your mere christianity, chancers.
    Are we a tad touchy about church history?
    Just because you can doesn't mean you should.

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