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  1. #71
    Senior Member Lightyear's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orangey View Post
    People still believe in hell? How cute.
    Did you read Jen's warning against snarky comments in this thread? If you have something critical to add at least get off your high horse and engage in a proper conversation.


    I was raised as an atheist and became a Christian as a 19-year old so to me going to church only on holidays is baffling, just as calling yourself a Catholic (or whatever else) just because your family or your country happen to be Catholic. Where I come from almost everyone is an atheist so there doesn't tend to be much "cultural Christianity" there, you are either a strongly believing Christian or you are an atheist, there is not much in between because Communism/Socialism has eradicated most of the empty religiosity between the Second World War and the fall of the Berlin Wall.

  2. #72
    Blah Orangey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lightyear View Post
    Did you read Jen's warning against snarky comments in this thread? If you have something critical to add at least get off your high horse and engage in a proper conversation.
    Actually, she warned about off-topic posts, but I'll let that one slide for now. I've already contributed something relevant to the conversation (which got dumped earlier with the other OT shit, even though it wasn't OT), but since I'm in a generous mood I'll go ahead and add my two cents again.

    I think that it it takes a certain kind of self-righteousness to resent others for their church-going habits. Some folks attend only on Easter and Christmas? So what? Other than the possibility that your favorite pew gets taken, how does that affect you? There are only two possible reasons one might feel this kind of resentment:

    (1) You feel that the holidays-only churchgoer is trivializing the religion; how can they just waltz in twice a year and pretend like they're real Christians when I've been here twice a week my entire life? It's akin to the feeling that the school tattle-tale gets when other kids get away with bending the rules. "How can they get away with it while I work so hard to stay in line?"

    (2) You assume that the holidays-only churchgoer shows up to feel pious (like you do), but you don't think they deserve to feel pious because they haven't put in the hard work that you have by showing up to church twice a week for your entire life. It's akin to the feeling that the school over-achiever gets when the other kids ride the coattails of his hard work in group projects. "How can they get an A when I did all the work?"
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  3. #73
    Senior Member Lightyear's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orangey View Post
    Actually, she warned about off-topic posts, but I'll let that one slide for now. I've already contributed something relevant to the conversation (which got dumped earlier with the other OT shit, even though it wasn't OT), but since I'm in a generous mood I'll go ahead and add my two cents again.

    I think that it it takes a certain kind of self-righteousness to resent others for their church-going habits. Some folks attend only on Easter and Christmas? So what? Other than the possibility that your favorite pew gets taken, how does that affect you? There are only two possible reasons one might feel this kind of resentment:

    (1) You feel that the holidays-only churchgoer is trivializing the religion; how can they just waltz in twice a year and pretend like they're real Christians when I've been here twice a week my entire life? It's akin to the feeling that the school tattle-tale gets when other kids get away with bending the rules. "How can they get away with it while I work so hard to stay in line?"

    (2) You assume that the holidays-only churchgoer shows up to feel pious (like you do), but you don't think they deserve to feel pious because they haven't put in the hard work that you have by showing up to church twice a week for your entire life. It's akin to the feeling that the school over-achiever gets when the other kids ride the coattails of his hard work in group projects. "How can they get an A when I did all the work?"
    I personally don't really care if people show up only once or twice a year to church, if that's what they do then that's what they do, I just don't understand the mindset of doing something just because it's tradition but without actually believing what stands behind the tradition. Since I was brought up as an atheist it would be the same as if I would show up to atheist related activities (I don't think there is an equivalent to religious services in atheism) just because I was brought up with that as a child, it would seem completely pointless to me, unless of course I want to do atheist family members a favour by attending their activities.

  4. #74
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orangey View Post
    People still believe in hell? How cute.
    I'm inclined to think, and the thread about eternity only reinforces it, that people can make a hell out of heaven.

  5. #75
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lightyear View Post
    Did you read Jen's warning against snarky comments in this thread? If you have something critical to add at least get off your high horse and engage in a proper conversation.


    I was raised as an atheist and became a Christian as a 19-year old so to me going to church only on holidays is baffling, just as calling yourself a Catholic (or whatever else) just because your family or your country happen to be Catholic. Where I come from almost everyone is an atheist so there doesn't tend to be much "cultural Christianity" there, you are either a strongly believing Christian or you are an atheist, there is not much in between because Communism/Socialism has eradicated most of the empty religiosity between the Second World War and the fall of the Berlin Wall.
    This is interesting, when you say you were raised an athiest and become religious were there any traditions and teachings associated with the atheism or was it more a case that religion was simply abscent and religion was a novelty?

    I found some of the humanist and non-theist ideas, some religious like buddhism, some political like socialism, very novel when I first discovered them but they never really proved competitive in terms of my life long philosophy or beliefs.

  6. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lightyear View Post
    I personally don't really care if people show up only once or twice a year to church, if that's what they do then that's what they do, I just don't understand the mindset of doing something just because it's tradition but without actually believing what stands behind the tradition.
    This is pretty much my attitude too. It seems mostly more non-religious people in this thread who are so concerned about this.

  7. #77
    LL P. Stewie Beorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peguy View Post
    Usually if I attend non-Catholic churches, I don't take communion. Both out of respect towards their tradition and out of adherence to mine.
    Yeah, I don't take communion at RS churches out of respect for there wishes, but I would if they allowed it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Peguy View Post
    This is pretty much my attitude too. It seems mostly more non-religious people in this thread who are so concerned about this.
    Yup. I'm concerned and confused, but certainly not resentful.
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  8. #78
    Post Human Post Qlip's Avatar
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    The OT is something that used to bug me also. Then as I got older I learned what churches are primarily used for: community and family. I totally respect that even though I couldn't ever participate in it.

  9. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qlippoth View Post
    The OT is something that used to bug me also. Then as I got older I learned what churches are primarily used for: community and family.
    No, they're primarily about worship of God. Family and community are secondary to that, even if indespensible.

  10. #80
    Post Human Post Qlip's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peguy View Post
    No, they're primarily about worship of God. Family and community are secondary to that, even if indespensible.
    Well, that may be the intended purpose, but It was a very rare day when I was forced to go to a Missouri Synod Lutheran service and tried to talk about the sermon afterword and was met with anything more than stunned looks that it would even be a topic. I figure most people go to church on Sunday because everyone else does.

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