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  1. #51

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    Quote Originally Posted by shortnsweet View Post
    Well, I semi-agree with you, in the sense that I don't 100 percent agree with Victor. I do agree in large part with the one post that I responded to, though. I am actually likely to think that the priest has more of an idea of spirituality than a lot of parishoners do. I have great respect for most priests. I also agree that some people can truly use religion to better their lives and feel fufilled.

    However, I feel that for many, religion is unnatural because of all the rules imposed on them from childhood. The words in (many) masses are so repetitive that as someone mentioned before the "magic" is eventually lost and the meaning is lost as well. Children in this environment being forced to follow a strict set of laws are not going to understand. Many hardcore religious people I see in my life don't seem to be able to apply it to modern society and turn it into something real. It's just words and practices to me as an outsider. I've grown up in this environment and it has just never clicked right for me. Humans and children are meant to experience things and learn things and be happy. Some interpretations of what God wants from us seems to go completely against the flow of human nature. It seems to go so much against the flow of human nature. It seems to me that to be a "Good Catholic" (I was Catholic) and also a natural human are completely at odds with eachother. They say you can ask questions of the religion but in reality, you can't question the religion. And if you do, the answers still never add up. (And when you start to question things and get angry and aren't 100% involved, you are no longer a true Catholic.)

    My projection of sadness amongst very religous people is paritally my own bias. My personality has seemed to be at odds with religion, rules, and strong beliefs since day one, so it is easy for me to become bitter and worn out and feel that it is unnatural. (For example, Catholic religion tells you that being raised Catholic gives you some sort of a blessing over everyone else. You are blessed with your Catholic faith. But because we "know" what is right, we are expected to do more.) It is very unnatural to me to say "I know" anything. So now I'm going to hell. Because I can't say that I know for sure though I was born Catholic. Sounds more like a curse to me. I can't claim to know what God wants from me in modern day society. I can only listen to my heart and hope that I get some answers.

    I found that I came to believe more in a higher power (and become closer) when religion was removed from the equation.
    Thank you for posting and sharing your experiences, its very interesting and, not surprisingly perhaps given that no matter how homogenous a community aspires to be it cant eliminate diversity and disparity entirely (I dont think it should try too hard either), not the same as my experiences.

    I've highlighted the bit which to me is so different from my experiences, I've a speculative and personal sympathy with some species of libertarian politics too. Anyway, have you ever read Abraham Maslow? He has written some great stuff about religion and religious traditions in relation to spirituality or spiritual experiences, I've got a couple of links if you're interested, even if you're not maybe you could save them for a time you are interested, who knows

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peak_experience

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abraham_Maslow

    http://webspace.ship.edu/cgboer/maslow.html

    http://www.amazon.co.uk/Religions-Va...3930448&sr=1-1

  2. #52
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Mod Note: I reviewed this thread and discovered a number of posts irrelevant to the topic matter of what's known as the "Christmas/Easter Churchgoer" and motivations for attending church. A large chunk of these posts have been removed from this thread.

    Consistently initiating blatant thread derails can result in disciplinary actions, including warnings, infractions, and/or subforum bans.

    If you would like to discuss a different topic, please start your own thread.

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  3. #53
    Senior Member swordpath's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Architectonic View Post
    By the way, I'm not convinced that going to church is a mandatory obligation of the Christian religion.
    It's not. So why should a holiday be an exception?

    I understand that kids and younger adults are going to attend church with their parents on holidays, because it is a social/family gathering and tradition... What I don't really understand is the families (parents) that bring their children to church on holidays, but don't really attend outside of that.

  4. #54
    Senior Member Viridian's Avatar
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    I agree with the tradition thing... My nuclear family is pretty much a-religious (is that a word?), but, though we don't go to church in most occasions, we do refrain from eating meat on Good Friday out of tradition. Though we don't count shrimp, fish and chicken as meat.

  5. #55
    LL P. Stewie Beorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peguy View Post
    It can also depend on the format of the services. I noticed that Protestant services seem to place more emphasis on the sermon part, wheras in Catholic services it's usually more focused on communion.
    Ceasing to have communion at every lord's day service was a great mistake of many made by protestants since leaving the Catholic church. There is at least one presbyterian denomination that centers sunday worship around the communion sacrament, but far too few churches in my own denomination do it.

    I'm not sure what happened. I know currently Catholic sermons run fairly short and historically Protestant sermons have run rather long. Combine that with the common extremely low view of the sacraments by many protestants and their might have been an unfortunate trade off.

    It would be especially nice to take communion during the holidays, but I wonder if protestant churches would be too concerned with the complications of doing that when there are many visitors. Or worst, not concerned at all.

    Going along with the the OP I'm curious if anyone who does visit a church just on holidays would feel awkward about being excluded from communion.
    Take the weakest thing in you
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  6. #56
    Senior Member prplchknz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beefeater View Post
    Ceasing to have communion at every lord's day service was a great mistake of many made by protestants since leaving the Catholic church. There is at least one presbyterian denomination that centers sunday worship around the communion sacrament, but far too few churches in my own denomination do it.

    I'm not sure what happened. I know currently Catholic sermons run fairly short and historically Protestant sermons have run rather long. Combine that with the common extremely low view of the sacraments by many protestants and their might have been an unfortunate trade off.

    It would be especially nice to take communion during the holidays, but I wonder if protestant churches would be too concerned with the complications of doing that when there are many visitors. Or worst, not concerned at all.

    Going along with the the OP I'm curious if anyone who does visit a church just on holidays would feel awkward about being excluded from communion.
    if I was visiting my mom and she asked me to go to church with her, I wouldn't feel awkward being excluded from communion. On holidays there's a lot of non-orthodox people visiting and they don't take communion either, so no it's not a big deal.
    In no likes experiment.

    that is all

    i dunno what else to say so

  7. #57
    Courage is immortality Valiant's Avatar
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    This thread makes me laugh... Going to church is some social invention by people who like to organize stuff.
    Going to church won't get anyone into heaven. Neither will praying or anything like that.
    Or belonging to the right branch of any belief.
    In fact, I don't even think "practicing" religion has anything to do with it at all.
    Well, of course in a way. But consciously doing some form of ritual, social or not, won't help.

    You will get the afterlife you deserve according to your nature. If you are a horrible person, but fear God, and follow the commandments...
    Then I think you'll still go to "hell".

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  8. #58
    LL P. Stewie Beorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by YourLocalJesus View Post
    This thread makes me laugh... Going to church is some social invention by people who like to organize stuff.
    Going to church won't get anyone into heaven. Neither will praying or anything like that.
    Or belonging to the right branch of any belief.
    In fact, I don't even think "practicing" religion has anything to do with it at all.
    Well, of course in a way. But consciously doing some form of ritual, social or not, won't help.
    Getting into heaven isn't the only reason to attend church.

    It's like people are only concerned with what the bare minimum is to appease God.

    If he is a loving Father and friend why wouldn't a believer want to go to church?


    Quote Originally Posted by YourLocalJesus View Post
    You will get the afterlife you deserve according to your nature. If you are a horrible person, but fear God, and follow the commandments...
    Then I think you'll still go to "hell".
    Agreed. I believe the problem is that naturally everyone is a horrible person at their core. Thus everyone needs a new nature. While not absolutely necessary meetings could be helpful in developing this new good nature.
    Take the weakest thing in you
    And then beat the bastards with it
    And always hold on when you get love
    So you can let go when you give it

  9. #59
    Vaguely Precise Seymour's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beefeater View Post
    Ceasing to have communion at every lord's day service was a great mistake of many made by protestants since leaving the Catholic church. There is at least one presbyterian denomination that centers sunday worship around the communion sacrament, but far too few churches in my own denomination do it.

    I'm not sure what happened. I know currently Catholic sermons run fairly short and historically Protestant sermons have run rather long. Combine that with the common extremely low view of the sacraments by many protestants and their might have been an unfortunate trade off.
    I was raised in the Church of Christ, and we did tend to have long sermons. The quality of preaching was, in general, much better than I found at other churches I visited. Some protestant denominations (like the Church of Christ) have communion every Sunday, despite being low church. In fact, the Church of Christ is about as "low church" as you can get, having very little in the way of fixed liturgy. When I started going to the Episcopal Church, I found the center of the service was more more the liturgy, while the quality of the homilies was more uneven.

    Quote Originally Posted by Beefeater View Post
    It would be especially nice to take communion during the holidays, but I wonder if protestant churches would be too concerned with the complications of doing that when there are many visitors. Or worst, not concerned at all.
    Not concerned about which aspect?

    Quote Originally Posted by Beefeater View Post
    Going along with the the OP I'm curious if anyone who does visit a church just on holidays would feel awkward about being excluded from communion.
    On the times I've attended on major holidays, usually it's been open to "all baptized believers" (or words to that effect). If people who "shouldn't" take communion, seems like that's been them and God.

  10. #60
    LL P. Stewie Beorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seymour View Post
    I was raised in the Church of Christ, and we did tend to have long sermons. The quality of preaching was, in general, much better than I found at other churches I visited. Some protestant denominations (like the Church of Christ) have communion every Sunday, despite being low church. In fact, the Church of Christ is about as "low church" as you can get, having very little in the way of fixed liturgy. When I started going to the Episcopal Church, I found the center of the service was more more the liturgy, while the quality of the homilies was more uneven.
    Interesting. I really don't know much at all about the CoC.



    Quote Originally Posted by Seymour View Post
    Not concerned about which aspect?
    Just whether or not to exclude anyone from it.
    Like if a church was uber-seeker sensitive and was afraid of offending or if they simply had such a low view of the sacraments that they just didn't care how or to who they were administered.



    Quote Originally Posted by Seymour View Post
    Not concerned about which aspect?
    On the times I've attended on major holidays, usually it's been open to "all baptized believers" (or words to that effect). If people who "shouldn't" take communion, seems like that's been them and God.[/QUOTE]

    Pretty munch the same thing at the Presby churches that I've attended. Except we usually also require that they be members of a local church (any church not that one necessarily) given that there would be a presumption that they are engaged in the unrepentant sin of not holding themselves accountable to the body of Christ. Some really conservative presby churches only allow their own members to partake.
    Take the weakest thing in you
    And then beat the bastards with it
    And always hold on when you get love
    So you can let go when you give it

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