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  1. #61
    Senior Member sculpting's Avatar
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    I need to learn to lie or at least keep my mouth shut a little more. To be honest i have grown to have a harder time with being passive and am now too direct in my communication for most people. I am working to value the indirect, meandering, less efficient path over the direct, forceful path.

    Theoretically it is better to say nothing than to lie, so I try and avoid situations in which I would be forced to be false in what i say.

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blank View Post
    @Not Me Isn't rape always harmful? Lying isn't necessarily harmful.
    I was suggesting that sex (not rape) was not a universal taboo.

    Quote Originally Posted by Huxley3112 View Post
    It's a deontology vs. consequentailism debate. Reality seems to fly better with consequentialism, or THE GREATER GOOD.
    If not for consequences, why should anyone care if they are behaving morally or not?

    Quote Originally Posted by Vie View Post
    Perhaps it is the way I was raised -- but to me it seems like you are comparing apples and oranges.
    In what way are the differences relevant from an ethical perspective? If we simply go by gut feel, then how do we resolve differences when people disagree?

  3. #63
    Giggity Vie's Avatar
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    Because you are comparing sex with lying. They are COMPLETELY different. Your basis for your argument is that sex is repugnant under certain situations such as rape and that lying is similar in that it is disgusting under some situations. But sex, when not rape, is consensual and has the agreement of both parties. Lying? Definitely a one sided thing going on there, and the other party certainly isn't agreeing to it. You're comparing two things that can't be compared. You can think that lying is okay and a tool in some situations, but when in relation to sex -- well, that's a bit of a stretch.

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vie View Post
    Because you are comparing sex with lying. They are COMPLETELY different.
    My comparison is unreasonable, but not if one asserts that consequences are irrelevant when it comes to judging morality. In that case, any act can arbitrarily be declared to be immoral. If that is no longer your position, then my argument is not applicable.

  5. #65
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
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    Thumbs down Taqiyya

    Quote Originally Posted by YWIR View Post
    What do you think of the act of "lying"?
    Taqiyya is lying for Allah.

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    Taqiyya is lying for Allah.
    Well its a good thing I'm not shi'a.

  7. #67
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by YWIR View Post
    Well its a good thing I'm not shi'a.
    They tried to bomb us in Canberra but we caught them, brought them before the Criminal Court, where they were convicted of terrorism, and sentenced to long jail terms.

    But they are nothing if not aggressive and continue to attack Australian women as well as our Constitution.

    The latest act of aggression is the call from the highest Islamic body in Australia to introduce Sharia.

    As I write, Government buildings in Canberra are surrounded by low, reinforced concrete walls to guard against Islamic car bombs.

  8. #68
    i love skylights's Avatar
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    taquiyya is self-preservational lying. kind of hard to hold it against anyone.

    Quote Originally Posted by YWIR View Post
    What do you think of the act of "lying"?
    it can range from useful to immensely stupid.

    What would you consider a white/black lie. How severe is 'okay'?
    white lie is when you give an altered version of your best understanding of things for the sake of someone's benefit. black lie is when you give an alternate version of your best understanding of reality for the lulz, or towards other less altruistic endgoals. "okay" depends entirely on the situation.

    Do you find lying cowardly? Are there benefits to lying? is it necessary for survival?
    depends on context again. sometimes it is cowardly; sometimes it is not. there are certainly benefits. stupid lying is generally cowardly and with short-term benefits. useful lying is more strategic in nature. it is almost never necessary for survival but it sure can make things easier.

    Does anyone firmly believe in the saying that " The Truth Will Set You Free" ?
    well, i believe that telling your purest form of understanding of something will free you from the stress of having to remember your own interpretation of events, and the complexities that arise from that. so in a sense, yes, i do believe that. but i don't believe that telling the truth is 100% good all the time.

    i think i tend to see "truth" as more fluid than many people, because all interpretations and understandings are colored by who we are and what we think. it would be extraordinarily rare to run across someone who was unbiased.

  9. #69
    lab rat extraordinaire CrystalViolet's Avatar
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    Every body lies. I might exggerate, and lie by omission, and sugar coat. I don't lie to any one but my mother. She never could deal with the truth. It often resulted in meltdowns and histronics, so telling her blantant whoppers was easier for every one. Truth is some times people force you to lie. What do you do with some one who refuses to hear the truth. And I made myself sick over this. I even tried sugar coated versions, same meltdowns and histronics, (and the odd beating when I was younger).
    I refuse to have to do that for any one else ever again, and I don't want people thinking they have to lie to me. It's cost me alot of money in therapy.
    Currently submerged under an avalanche of books and paper work. I may come back up for air from time to time.
    Real life awaits and she is a demanding mistress.

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  10. #70
    Nips away your dignity Fluffywolf's Avatar
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    For me there is a difference between purposefully lying, or trying to tell truth where truth is not known, thus ending up lying.

    My stance on purposefully lying is against. I understand telling the truth can be harmful, especially short term. But I hope that it will wield long term positive effects, and allows us to learn and evolve. Lying, keeping people dumb, will surely never do much good to anyone, and will only repeat itself until the end of time, if not stopped at some point along the way.
    ~Self-depricating Megalomaniacal Superwolf

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