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  1. #21
    Senior Member Stigmata's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmie Dearest View Post
    Lying is a survival skill. Lying is more and more necessary pending on the situation, whether your life is in danger, or you're just working as an exotic dancer.
    Eh. I wouldn't say it's a survival skill so much as it's a tactic. Lying is not integral to sustaining myself or in preserving the integrity of my surroundings, it's merely an option that is at times both logical and viable.

    Quote Originally Posted by Marmie Dearest View Post
    On the other hand, actively lying to people whom you have real relationships with - friends, family, significant others - is always wrong, IMO.
    Quote Originally Posted by Marmie Dearest View Post
    Always telling the truth is stupid, but lying to people who you have genuine relationships with is totally destructive and immoral.
    Can you explain "actively" lying? And also, why does the relationship depth have any bearing on whether lying is a positive or a negative? I'm not really seeing how the severity of the action changes due to interpersonal connections. Lies are all equally deceptive in nature despite to whom they're addressed toward and the intentions in doing so.

  2. #22
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    I disagree strongly. Intention and impact to do harm is everything.

    Lying because I am in danger, or don't want some creeper at the club stalking me, is a perfectly legitimate reason to lie, and it would be incredibly stupid not to. Also, if my (or someone else's) personal safety will be put at risk by being honest to a crazy, abusive partner, this is not only advisable, but in some cases absolutely necessary unless you're some kind of martyr-doormat, which I am not, and I don't think anyone else should be, either. Behold my Fi/Te rather than Fe.

    However, by "actively" lying, I mean intentionally fabricating tales to deceive a person you care about or who cares about you. In that case, it is destructive and immoral, and has no basis in survival.

    Things like lying and stealing are survival skills, yes they are. They're primitive, logical modes of survival.

    If you don't think lying is ever necessary to your well-being, apparently your life has been quite comfortable and danger-free.

  3. #23
    Senior Member Stigmata's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmie Dearest View Post
    Things like lying and stealing are survival skills, yes they are. They're primitive, logical modes of survival.

    If you don't think lying is ever necessary to your well-being, apparently your life has been quite comfortable and danger-free.
    I guess this is just a difference of opinion. As I said earlier, I see it as an option, and sometimes a perfectly legitimate option, yet never absolute necessity. Claiming it as a necessity implies the existence of scenarios in which the path is linear and lying is the only possible method of survival, or that somehow that survival and lying are directly tied together in and of themselves rather than the outcome being a result of a conscious decision.

  4. #24
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    On an attendent topic or point, I couldnt see anyone practicing radical honesty like the character in "Lie To Me" who would not be made totally miserable by the experience in real life.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    On an attendent topic or point, I couldnt see anyone practicing radical honesty like the character in "Lie To Me" who would not be made totally miserable by the experience in real life.
    There is a difference between lying and saying nothing at all. Just because you speak the truth doesn't mean you need to speak every truth you think of.

  6. #26
    Senior Member captain curmudgeon's Avatar
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    Lying when there is an advantage to all parties involved is perfectly fine. If a lie will create a significant possibility of harm or increase the level of harm, it is wrong. Otherwise, it is subjective. This also applies to the omission of information.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by wheelchairdoug View Post
    Lying when there is an advantage to all parties involved is perfectly fine. If a lie will create a significant possibility of harm or increase the level of harm, it is wrong. Otherwise, it is subjective.
    When is lying beneficial to all parties involved?

    In my experience, the truth always comes out sooner or later. The sooner it does, the less time is wasted.

  8. #28
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    So I was thinking about this earlier, and I realized I would not equate online lying to real-life lying... Of course, depending on what you're lying about( Ie, A Bank form vs. an online forum).
    Online lying would not really have any real-life consequence, where as, irl, as tg sad, " the truth will always come out".

    hmm

  9. #29
    Let me count the ways Betty Blue's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by YWIR View Post
    So I was thinking about this earlier, and I realized I would not equate online lying to real-life lying... Of course, depending on what you're lying about( Ie, A Bank form vs. an online forum).
    Online lying would not really have any real-life consequence, where as, irl, as tg sad, " the truth will always come out".

    hmm
    To be honest, i'd prefer to lie on a bank form than to someone i have a rap with on this forum. I don't think much of banks in general, they are not people but institutions and therefor have no feelings... as for the forgery/fraud side of things
    Meh, iv'e done worse.
    "We knew he was someone who had a tragic flaw, that's where his greatness came from"

  10. #30
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    Lying is not OK in situations where there is the desire to build a relationship of trust. However, in a purely adversarial scenarios, it would foolish not to reserve the right to lie. There is nothing immoral about it. In fact, I would not trust a person who was incapable of lying under any circumstance because anything I tell them in confidence will likely become public knowledge.

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