Stealing is Fair/unfair.

[Not_Me]

How does one produce?

Photosynthesis.

 

[Betty Blue]

in regards to your original question: economics is the distribution of power and utility. a business is designed to distribute value in the most effective and efficient means possible and sometimes to create entirely new value, and they have a very strong incentive to do this: PROFIT. however, there are a few rules in any lawful society.
1) no stealing
2) no violence
3) no controlling of other people through force or intimidation
4) respect people's right to go after their own goals, their own ambitions, their own desires and their own self interests, as long as they don't stray from the first 3 rules. that's where a legal system comes in
"my right to swing my arms stops where my neighbor's nose begins" so to speak.
5) man is entitled to the fruits of his own labor, and to no one elses. there is no such things as entitlement.
this is pure and unadulterated economics as allowed it's true existance by capitalism. under such conditions, value will be continuously redistributed efficiently and new value will be created, allowing for a cyclical trend of rapid economic growth as long as this system remains undisturbed.
corporatism is a corruption of real capitalism because of the interaction between government and economics which leads to lower productivity, higher taxes for the productive and lower taxes for the unproductive, lobbyists, cronies and corrupt businessmen who are the puppetteers or politicians.

Wha....? to the bolded
Sorry, do you believe this is how capitalism actually works in practise? Or are you just talking about it in an idealistic way?
These things don't actually happen irl for the majority...
Can you tell me one multinational that adheres to these rules? name it.
As for point 5 i'm confused by this as it seems like you are talking about individuals and not organisations/corps/etc

 

[guesswho]

2) no violence

Yeah right I know this guy he rented a small space to sell sandwiches and got beaten up by the competition. Literally.

Now...if one get's his ass kicked for selling sandwiches...imagine the big picture.

 

[knight]

Yeah right I know this guy he rented a small space to sell sandwiches and got beaten up by the competition. Literally.

Now...if one get's his ass kicked for selling sandwiches...imagine the big picture.

must be some good sandwiches

 

[guesswho]

must be some good sandwiches

well they weren't exactly sandwiches.
It's called shaorma.

And that guy who's 21 got beaten up by a 50 year old mogul hillarious

 

[Elfboy]

Wha....? to the bolded
Sorry, do you believe this is how capitalism actually works in practise? Or are you just talking about it in an idealistic way?
These things don't actually happen irl for the majority...
Can you tell me one multinational that adheres to these rules? name it.
As for point 5 i'm confused by this as it seems like you are talking about individuals and not organisations/corps/etc

Singapore, at least that's what several international investors say on their forums
PS: capitalism doesn't work like this because the legal system does not support it. you do have to make the bolded list illegal after all (which is more complicated than it sounds, but 1/100th as complicated as our own legal system in america.

 

[Elfboy]

Yeah right I know this guy he rented a small space to sell sandwiches and got beaten up by the competition. Literally.

Now...if one get's his ass kicked for selling sandwiches...imagine the big picture.

um.... my point exactly. the fact that those guys who beat him up didn't get arrested and got away from that scot free shows that there are HUGE problems with out legal system.

 

[Thalassa]

Yeah right I know this guy he rented a small space to sell sandwiches and got beaten up by the competition. Literally.

Now...if one get's his ass kicked for selling sandwiches...imagine the big picture.

Yeah that's it exactly - plus these corps drive small business out, and they use cheap third world labor in an attempt to keep their prices competitive with businesses that might run in a more ethical manner.

It's a complex form of theivery itself, which is why I take no issue with people shop lifting from major corporations.

I do not do so because I am a grown up, but I did when I was like fifteen/sixteen, before I'd become a bit more reasonable.

 

[Thalassa]

Oh I could also talk about how global intellectual property laws favor big business rather than the poor people in third world countries they employ.

It's all set up to work in their favor. It's incredibly heinous.

It doesn't just happen overseas, either.

Happens here too. I had a history prof in college who was actually a full-time corporate lawyer for one of the big coal companies in WV, and he knows what they're up to. When I confronted him about it, his only defense was "it's a job" and he looked kind of guilty and frightened.

Because he knows. He knows how laws work to protect the coal companies, even as they destroy land and people's homes, like literally put cracks in the foundations of the earth and people's houses start falling down.

 

[guesswho]

um.... my point exactly. the fact that those guys who beat him up didn't get arrested and got away from that scot free shows that there are HUGE problems with out legal system.

ha! arrested? They own the fucking cops.

 

[Betty Blue]

Singapore, at least that's what several international investors say on their forums
PS: capitalism doesn't work like this because the legal system does not support it. you do have to make the bolded list illegal after all (which is more complicated than it sounds, but 1/100th as complicated as our own legal system in america.

Singapore what? Do you mean the country or a company? I asked if you knew a multinational or huge corp which actually employs these idealistic rules that you mention. I don't know of a co. called Singapore so you'll have to link me to a page. If you just mean how capitalism works in Singapore i call bs.
http://openlearn.open.ac.uk/mod/oucontent/view.php?id=397944&section=1.4.2

 

[Viridian]

I remember watching a special report on TV about Singapore... From what I gathered, it's a prosperous country overall, but immigrants have it real tough - they live in almost slave-like conditions, earning about 20 dollars a month.

 

[Elfboy]

Singapore what? Do you mean the country or a company? I asked if you knew a multinational or huge corp which actually employs these idealistic rules that you mention. I don't know of a co. called Singapore so you'll have to link me to a page. If you just mean how capitalism works in Singapore i call bs.
http://openlearn.open.ac.uk/mod/oucontent/view.php?id=397944&section=1.4.2

as I have stated previously, I am opposed to corporations and believe them to be a breach of proper capitalism. please do not equate capitalism with corporations.

 

[Not_Me]

as I have stated previously, I am opposed to corporations and believe them to be a breach of proper capitalism. please do not equate capitalism with corporations.

Money is power. If there's no government controls, how do you prevent corporations from getting too big and powerful? Isn't mega-corps the natural consequence of unrestricted capitalism? Collusion can be more profitable than competition. I see no natural mechanism to keep them honest.

 

[Oberon]

I used to kife the occasional thing if I could rationalize it.

I gave it up... don't do that any more. I didn't like the effect it had on the people I stole from (even pens, even from work), but also I didn't like the effect it had on me.

Better to buy your own pens and sleep at night.

 

[Magic Poriferan]

Morally, the situation is very complex, but it must follow by my philosophy that there are times when stealing is right. Surely there are situations when the person who steals is helped more than the person who's stolen from is hurt, particularly when a thief has few or no feasible alternatives to address a desperate situation.

 

[Santosha]

Wait... I'm confused about morally justifying stealing from corps. If you steal from a corp.. don't they usually just raise prices to offset losses? So in effect your stealing from your fellow consumers?

 

[Magic Poriferan]

Wait... I'm confused about morally justifying stealing from corps. If you steal from a corp.. don't they usually just raise prices to offset losses? So in effect your stealing from your fellow consumers?

They can do a lot of things that make regular consumers suffer.

In theory, though, if a large enough percentage of would-be consumers steal, the corporation is fucked, and that's what I see happening with digital theft (piracy) and intellectual property. It's a losing battle. The businesses effected will have to capitulate eventually. The end result will probably be something better for consumers than what existed before. In the mean time, pirates (who are more common and normal every day) take no skin off of their backs. In a sense, but causing the corporations to respond in ways that hurts regular consumers, they are encouraging those consumers to become pirates too, thus accelerating the process.

 

[Oberon]

Morally, the situation is very complex.

No it's not. Stealing is always evil. The only mitigating factor is when doing so prevents a worse evil, such as starving.

 

[Not_Me]

It is important to distinguish between the legal and moral definition of stealing. They are not the same.